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Author Topic: BSHP WILLIAMSON/FR FEENEY  (Read 1912 times)

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Offline Banezian

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Re: BSHP WILLIAMSON/FR FEENEY
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2020, 07:51:44 PM »
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  • In the seminary curriculum, moral theology doesn’t begin until after Latin 1-3 has been completed, and the seminarian has “tested out” of Latin (ie., year 4-5 in the seminary).

    Just curious why, therefore, you would note that Alphonsus hasn’t been completely translated into English as a reason for the SSPX not to use him.

    Ps: He has been translated into French (unsure of German, but probably), yet Econe preferred Merkelbach.
    Sean
    The amount of Latin they study at seminaries today is not NEARLY enough to read works in the language. My understanding is that most seminarians( by the time they finish Latin) can reqd the Vulgate with a lexicon. You can’t go through complex works ( like the work of St. Alphonsus) in Latin with so little training. They don’t have the time in the curriculum to get the seminarians really good in Latin.
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: BSHP WILLIAMSON/FR FEENEY
    « Reply #16 on: July 16, 2020, 08:01:40 PM »
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  • They use Prummer’s Moral Theology at STAS( he affirms BOD but says that the necessity of explicit Faith in the Trinity and Incarnation is probable, and should certainly be what is taught in practice)

    That's two steps removed from teaching it.  Using a textbook does not mean the SSPX and professors agree with everything in it.  And the textbook itself simply teaches that it's "probable", i.e. a tenable opinion.

    Archbishop Lefebvre did not hold this view.

    So, for instance, the priest I mentioned was not forbidden from teaching, just was admonished about it.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: BSHP WILLIAMSON/FR FEENEY
    « Reply #17 on: July 16, 2020, 08:05:52 PM »
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  • If they now use Prummer, that is something new (Thanks for the heads-up!).

    Formerly, the entire SSPX used Merkelbach.

    Strangely, they never used St. Alphonsus.

    I once asked Fr. Beck why, and he said he did not know.

    It's the equivalent of not using St. Thomas Aquinas in Philosophy.

    There are probably several reasons.  St. Thomas also isn't used as THE textbook.  That's partly because their respective works are so large that it was not possible to get through them in the normal seminary curriculum.  In addition, there have been developments since they wrote.  In particular, the 1917 Code of Canon Law had to be considered in the realm of moral theology.  Consequently, leading up the Vatican II, the "manuals" took over in the seminaries.  They were more succinct, concise, and up-to-date.  I'm sure that if a seminarian went on to more advanced studies, those would be required reading.  And of course, the better manuals quoted extensively from these saints, but also probably considered contrary opinions on various issues.

    So, for instance, you wouldn't use St. Thomas to teach about the Immaculate Conception.  And there had also been many dogmatic definitions since his time, from Trent to the Immaculate Conception to Vatican I to the Assumption.

    Offline Banezian

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    Re: BSHP WILLIAMSON/FR FEENEY
    « Reply #18 on: July 16, 2020, 08:07:14 PM »
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  • That's two steps removed from teaching it.  Using a textbook does not mean the SSPX and professors agree with everything in it.  And the textbook itself simply teaches that it's "probable", i.e. a tenable opinion.

    Archbishop Lefebvre did not hold this view.

    So, for instance, the priest I mentioned was not forbidden from teaching, just was admonished about it.
    I asked 2 professors and several seminarians about BOD. They all articulated Prummer’s position
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: BSHP WILLIAMSON/FR FEENEY
    « Reply #19 on: July 16, 2020, 08:07:48 PM »
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  • I asked 2 professors and several seminarians about BOD. They all articulated Prummer’s position

    Again, saying it's "probable" doesn't mean all that much.  It simply means it can be held without being guilty of theological error.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: BSHP WILLIAMSON/FR FEENEY
    « Reply #20 on: July 16, 2020, 08:38:10 PM »
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  • Pretty sure that if the reasons for not using St. Alphonsus were along the lines of the sort mentioned by Lad/Banezian, Fr. Beck would have said so (but who knows).
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."