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Author Topic: Breaking: NOW (M. Derksen) Rejects Invincible Ignorance  (Read 26412 times)

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Offline Mithrandylan

Re: Breaking: NOW (M. Derksen) Rejects Invincible Ignorance
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2022, 09:26:59 AM »
Quote from: Mithrandylan on November 07, 2022, 09:05:22 AM
It says the meaning once declared is to be maintained. It does not say that the literal or plain meaning of a given declaration is to be understood literally.
Let me rephrase: Vatican I does not say that the plain/literal meaning of a given conciliar decree is in fact the correct or complete meaning of a given conciliar decree. 
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It simply says that whatever meaning the Church declares is the meaning to be retained. 
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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Breaking: NOW (M. Derksen) Rejects Invincible Ignorance
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2022, 09:43:08 AM »
Quote from: Mithrandylan on November 07, 2022, 09:26:59 AM
Let me rephrase: Vatican I does not say that the plain/literal meaning of a given conciliar decree is in fact the correct or complete meaning of a given conciliar decree.
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It simply says that whatever meaning the Church declares is the meaning to be retained.

Yeah, I didn't see "plain" or "literal" in the translation posted by Stubborn. But I think he's pinning his understanding on the "once" in "once declared." However, that would mean even the Church Herself couldn't revisit and clarify texts she "once declared," which would be a bit odd. 
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Breaking: NOW (M. Derksen) Rejects Invincible Ignorance
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2022, 09:45:21 AM »
Quote from: Mithrandylan on November 07, 2022, 09:05:22 AM
It says the meaning once declared is to be maintained. It does not say that the literal or plain meaning of a given declaration is to be understood literally.
Well, if the meaning of that which is declared is to be maintained as declared, but can be understood in any other way at all, then it seems obvious that it's meaning will not be maintained. Heck, that's pretty much the same formula that V2 went with, ie say one thing but can mean some thing(s) else.

Clear teachings get misunderstood due to people misunderstanding what is being taught, not because what is being taught is not clear - preconceived notions might be the biggest culprit. By that I mean people take their mindset to these teachings and they see in these various teachings what they already believe. And what they do not believe, they do not see, or refuse to see, not sure which.
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Breaking: NOW (M. Derksen) Rejects Invincible Ignorance
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2022, 09:49:07 AM »
Quote from: DecemRationis on November 07, 2022, 09:43:08 AM
Yeah, I didn't see "plain" or "literal" in the translation posted by Stubborn. But I think he's pinning his understanding on the "once" in "once declared." However, that would mean even the Church Herself couldn't revisit and clarify texts she "once declared," which would be a bit odd.
It would not mean that the Church could not revisit defined dogmas, after all, the dogma EENS was declared 3 times. Each time the meaning was the same as it was "once declared," i.e. declared the first time.
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Offline ServusInutilisDomini

Re: Breaking: NOW (M. Derksen) Rejects Invincible Ignorance
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2022, 10:15:45 AM »
Quote from: Mithrandylan on November 07, 2022, 07:06:54 AM
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I see. So there's no breaking news here, just the satisfaction of your un-evidenced prejudice.
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No need to be rude. I was just happy that Mr. Derksen hadn't fallen into this heresy.
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