Quote from: BumphreyHogart

Quote from: happenby

Quote from: Gregory I

Quote from: BumphreyHogart

Quote from: happenby

So Bumph, do you also deny that God gets Baptism for all His elect?  Remember now, Baptism and bod have different definitions and properties, so don't presume to insert bod here, it doesn't apply.    

Naturally, you true Catholics, champions of Baptism and Church doctrine...notice that he won't answer the question directly because he cannot answer it and still hold bod.   If he denies it, he runs against St. Robert Bellarmine and scripture at the very least. If he admits it, the discussion ended and he finally agrees with Church teaching.  Rather, he will be forced by his erroneous convictions to wallow in ad hominem or deflect. You're all tired and bored of it, but watch the inevitable...

It has been said here already that baptism of desire, though not the Sacraments, participates in that particular Sacrament. Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect.

The quote by the Roman Catechism is very clear that adults can go to heaven without baptism by water. You are once again arguing with the Church. Very serious.

You just fell into Calvinism, "Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect."

False. For a person can lose their justification and will demonstrate that they were reprobate if they die this way. This is the perseverance of the saints heresy espoused by Calvin, that all who are justified necessarily persevere and are elect. The Catholic teaching is that some who are just fall away from their justice.

How many ways to Tuesday can this bod argument fail? Boom.

Wow, is THAT convincing!

Yours never is.

]

It's almost impossible to convince a person such as you who is so riddled with errors that he cannot think straight, but I am happy to interact with you for the sake of the lurkers.

Quote from: BumphreyHogart

Quote from: happenby

Quote from: BumphreyHogart

Quote from: happenby

Quote from: Gregory I

Quote from: BumphreyHogart

Quote from: happenby

So Bumph, do you also deny that God gets Baptism for all His elect?  Remember now, Baptism and bod have different definitions and properties, so don't presume to insert bod here, it doesn't apply.    

Naturally, you true Catholics, champions of Baptism and Church doctrine...notice that he won't answer the question directly because he cannot answer it and still hold bod.   If he denies it, he runs against St. Robert Bellarmine and scripture at the very least. If he admits it, the discussion ended and he finally agrees with Church teaching.  Rather, he will be forced by his erroneous convictions to wallow in ad hominem or deflect. You're all tired and bored of it, but watch the inevitable...

It has been said here already that baptism of desire, though not the Sacraments, participates in that particular Sacrament. Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect.

The quote by the Roman Catechism is very clear that adults can go to heaven without baptism by water. You are once again arguing with the Church. Very serious.

You just fell into Calvinism, "Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect."

False. For a person can lose their justification and will demonstrate that they were reprobate if they die this way. This is the perseverance of the saints heresy espoused by Calvin, that all who are justified necessarily persevere and are elect. The Catholic teaching is that some who are just fall away from their justice.

How many ways to Tuesday can this bod argument fail? Boom.

Wow, is THAT convincing!

Yours never is.

]

It's almost impossible to convince a person such as you who is so riddled with errors that he cannot think straight, but I am happy to interact with you for the sake of the lurkers.

Aw, and I just dismissed you on the other thread.  But I was nice about it.  :-)

Aw.

What you probably meant was that anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the faithful. Right?

St. Robert Bellarmine says that God gets Baptism for all his elect.

Scripture attests to this: Romans 8:30 tells us:   And whom he predestined, them he also called. And whom he called, them he also justified. And whom he justified, them he also glorified.

So, of those who receive glory, all were predestined, but, they were first called and then justified.  This doesn't mean that all who are called are justified, nor that all who are justified are glorified, but rather, from a finished point of view, from heaven's view looking back to the beginnings of those who obtained glory, scripture explains that God called and justified the glorified in heaven.  Now, since the promulgation of the gospel, after Christ, those people predestined to heaven obtain Baptism because Christ made it mandatory.  For those born prior to Christ, faith alone obtained glory once Christ died and rose and ascended.  


Baptism is the distinctive mark of all Christians, and serves to differentiate them from those who have not been cleansed in this purifying stream and who, consequently, are not members of Christ.

Pope Pius XII