Author Topic: Feeneyism condemned by Pope Gregory XVI  (Read 4519 times)

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Offline Gregory I

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Feeneyism condemned by Pope Gregory XVI
« Reply #135 on: March 18, 2017, 04:31:34 PM »
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  • Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    Quote from: happenby
    So Bumph, do you also deny that God gets Baptism for all His elect?  Remember now, Baptism and bod have different definitions and properties, so don't presume to insert bod here, it doesn't apply.    

    Naturally, you true Catholics, champions of Baptism and Church doctrine...notice that he won't answer the question directly because he cannot answer it and still hold bod.   If he denies it, he runs against St. Robert Bellarmine and scripture at the very least. If he admits it, the discussion ended and he finally agrees with Church teaching.  Rather, he will be forced by his erroneous convictions to wallow in ad hominem or deflect. You're all tired and bored of it, but watch the inevitable...


    It has been said here already that baptism of desire, though not the Sacraments, participates in that particular Sacrament. Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect.

    The quote by the Roman Catechism is very clear that adults can go to heaven without baptism by water. You are once again arguing with the Church. Very serious.


    You just fell into Calvinism, "Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect."

    False. For a person can lose their justification and will demonstrate that they were reprobate if they die this way. This is the perseverance of the saints heresy espoused by Calvin, that all who are justified necessarily persevere and are elect. The Catholic teaching is that some who are just fall away from their justice.
    'Take care not to resemble the multitude whose knowledge of God's will only condemns them to more severe punishment.'

    -St. John of Avila

    Offline BumphreyHogart

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    Feeneyism condemned by Pope Gregory XVI
    « Reply #136 on: March 18, 2017, 04:43:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: Gregory I
    Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    Quote from: happenby
    So Bumph, do you also deny that God gets Baptism for all His elect?  Remember now, Baptism and bod have different definitions and properties, so don't presume to insert bod here, it doesn't apply.    

    Naturally, you true Catholics, champions of Baptism and Church doctrine...notice that he won't answer the question directly because he cannot answer it and still hold bod.   If he denies it, he runs against St. Robert Bellarmine and scripture at the very least. If he admits it, the discussion ended and he finally agrees with Church teaching.  Rather, he will be forced by his erroneous convictions to wallow in ad hominem or deflect. You're all tired and bored of it, but watch the inevitable...


    It has been said here already that baptism of desire, though not the Sacraments, participates in that particular Sacrament. Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect.

    The quote by the Roman Catechism is very clear that adults can go to heaven without baptism by water. You are once again arguing with the Church. Very serious.


    You just fell into Calvinism, "Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect."

    False. For a person can lose their justification and will demonstrate that they were reprobate if they die this way. This is the perseverance of the saints heresy espoused by Calvin, that all who are justified necessarily persevere and are elect. The Catholic teaching is that some who are just fall away from their justice.


    Wrong. You fall into the fallacy of begging the question. Anyone who is saved, is a Catholic. And the A Catholic Dictionary says that Catholics are the Elect, buy the most common sense of the term:

    "ELECT, THE.  Those chosen by God either (a) for the grace of faith and the true religion (the most common sense), or (b) for eternal glory. "
    "there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

    Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.


    Offline happenby

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    Feeneyism condemned by Pope Gregory XVI
    « Reply #137 on: March 18, 2017, 04:45:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: Gregory I
    Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    Quote from: happenby
    So Bumph, do you also deny that God gets Baptism for all His elect?  Remember now, Baptism and bod have different definitions and properties, so don't presume to insert bod here, it doesn't apply.    

    Naturally, you true Catholics, champions of Baptism and Church doctrine...notice that he won't answer the question directly because he cannot answer it and still hold bod.   If he denies it, he runs against St. Robert Bellarmine and scripture at the very least. If he admits it, the discussion ended and he finally agrees with Church teaching.  Rather, he will be forced by his erroneous convictions to wallow in ad hominem or deflect. You're all tired and bored of it, but watch the inevitable...


    It has been said here already that baptism of desire, though not the Sacraments, participates in that particular Sacrament. Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect.

    The quote by the Roman Catechism is very clear that adults can go to heaven without baptism by water. You are once again arguing with the Church. Very serious.


    You just fell into Calvinism, "Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect."

    False. For a person can lose their justification and will demonstrate that they were reprobate if they die this way. This is the perseverance of the saints heresy espoused by Calvin, that all who are justified necessarily persevere and are elect. The Catholic teaching is that some who are just fall away from their justice.


    How many ways to Tuesday can this bod argument fail? Boom.

    Offline Gregory I

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    Feeneyism condemned by Pope Gregory XVI
    « Reply #138 on: March 18, 2017, 04:46:03 PM »
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  • Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    Quote from: Gregory I
    Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    Quote from: happenby
    So Bumph, do you also deny that God gets Baptism for all His elect?  Remember now, Baptism and bod have different definitions and properties, so don't presume to insert bod here, it doesn't apply.    

    Naturally, you true Catholics, champions of Baptism and Church doctrine...notice that he won't answer the question directly because he cannot answer it and still hold bod.   If he denies it, he runs against St. Robert Bellarmine and scripture at the very least. If he admits it, the discussion ended and he finally agrees with Church teaching.  Rather, he will be forced by his erroneous convictions to wallow in ad hominem or deflect. You're all tired and bored of it, but watch the inevitable...


    It has been said here already that baptism of desire, though not the Sacraments, participates in that particular Sacrament. Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect.

    The quote by the Roman Catechism is very clear that adults can go to heaven without baptism by water. You are once again arguing with the Church. Very serious.


    You just fell into Calvinism, "Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect."

    False. For a person can lose their justification and will demonstrate that they were reprobate if they die this way. This is the perseverance of the saints heresy espoused by Calvin, that all who are justified necessarily persevere and are elect. The Catholic teaching is that some who are just fall away from their justice.


    Wrong. You fall into the fallacy of begging the question. Anyone who is saved, is a Catholic. And the A Catholic Dictionary says that Catholics are the Elect, buy the most common sense of the term:

    "ELECT, THE.  Those chosen by God either (a) for the grace of faith and the true religion (the most common sense), or (b) for eternal glory. "


    Research the Heresy of Calvinism.

    BTW to plagiarize Ladislaus:

    Quote from: Ladislaus
    Someone was kind enough to send me the original Latin, and this passage in Trent represents yet another butchered translation (probably to further an agenda).

    Quote
    ...qui rationis usu praediti sint, Baptismi suscipiendi propositum, atque consilium, & male actae vitae poenitentia satis futura sit ad gratiam, & iustitiam, si repentinus aliquis casus impediat, quominus salutari aqua ablui possint


    There's nothing here whatsoever about "impossibility", as the Latin impediat means to hindred or obstruct.  It's actually rather bad Latin, but the sense is clear.  It should be translated as follows:

    "[these proper dispositions] would suffice to see them through any sudden event/mishap that might get in the way of their being able to be cleansed/washed with the saving water", see them through "to grace and justice" -- I just put that last part last not to interrupt the flow.

    In other words, it's saying basically that God would not let anything get in the way of their receiving the Sacrament of Baptism if they have the proper dispositions.


    So yeah, like I said.
    'Take care not to resemble the multitude whose knowledge of God's will only condemns them to more severe punishment.'

    -St. John of Avila

    Offline BumphreyHogart

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    Feeneyism condemned by Pope Gregory XVI
    « Reply #139 on: March 18, 2017, 04:51:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: Gregory I
    Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    Quote from: Gregory I
    Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    Quote from: happenby
    So Bumph, do you also deny that God gets Baptism for all His elect?  Remember now, Baptism and bod have different definitions and properties, so don't presume to insert bod here, it doesn't apply.    

    Naturally, you true Catholics, champions of Baptism and Church doctrine...notice that he won't answer the question directly because he cannot answer it and still hold bod.   If he denies it, he runs against St. Robert Bellarmine and scripture at the very least. If he admits it, the discussion ended and he finally agrees with Church teaching.  Rather, he will be forced by his erroneous convictions to wallow in ad hominem or deflect. You're all tired and bored of it, but watch the inevitable...


    It has been said here already that baptism of desire, though not the Sacraments, participates in that particular Sacrament. Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect.

    The quote by the Roman Catechism is very clear that adults can go to heaven without baptism by water. You are once again arguing with the Church. Very serious.


    You just fell into Calvinism, "Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect."

    False. For a person can lose their justification and will demonstrate that they were reprobate if they die this way. This is the perseverance of the saints heresy espoused by Calvin, that all who are justified necessarily persevere and are elect. The Catholic teaching is that some who are just fall away from their justice.


    Wrong. You fall into the fallacy of begging the question. Anyone who is saved, is a Catholic. And the A Catholic Dictionary says that Catholics are the Elect, buy the most common sense of the term:

    "ELECT, THE.  Those chosen by God either (a) for the grace of faith and the true religion (the most common sense), or (b) for eternal glory. "


    Research the Heresy of Calvinism.

    BTW to plagiarize Ladislaus:

    Quote from: Ladislaus
    Someone was kind enough to send me the original Latin, and this passage in Trent represents yet another butchered translation (probably to further an agenda).

    Quote
    ...qui rationis usu praediti sint, Baptismi suscipiendi propositum, atque consilium, & male actae vitae poenitentia satis futura sit ad gratiam, & iustitiam, si repentinus aliquis casus impediat, quominus salutari aqua ablui possint


    There's nothing here whatsoever about "impossibility", as the Latin impediat means to hindred or obstruct.  It's actually rather bad Latin, but the sense is clear.  It should be translated as follows:

    "[these proper dispositions] would suffice to see them through any sudden event/mishap that might get in the way of their being able to be cleansed/washed with the saving water", see them through "to grace and justice" -- I just put that last part last not to interrupt the flow.

    In other words, it's saying basically that God would not let anything get in the way of their receiving the Sacrament of Baptism if they have the proper dispositions.


    So yeah, like I said.


    How silly. I quote a tried and true, approved Catholic reference work, and you say it is wrong, and to listen to Ladislaus!!

    Feeneyites....it's what they do.
    "there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

    Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.


    Offline BumphreyHogart

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    Feeneyism condemned by Pope Gregory XVI
    « Reply #140 on: March 18, 2017, 04:52:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: happenby
    Quote from: Gregory I
    Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    Quote from: happenby
    So Bumph, do you also deny that God gets Baptism for all His elect?  Remember now, Baptism and bod have different definitions and properties, so don't presume to insert bod here, it doesn't apply.    

    Naturally, you true Catholics, champions of Baptism and Church doctrine...notice that he won't answer the question directly because he cannot answer it and still hold bod.   If he denies it, he runs against St. Robert Bellarmine and scripture at the very least. If he admits it, the discussion ended and he finally agrees with Church teaching.  Rather, he will be forced by his erroneous convictions to wallow in ad hominem or deflect. You're all tired and bored of it, but watch the inevitable...


    It has been said here already that baptism of desire, though not the Sacraments, participates in that particular Sacrament. Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect.

    The quote by the Roman Catechism is very clear that adults can go to heaven without baptism by water. You are once again arguing with the Church. Very serious.


    You just fell into Calvinism, "Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect."

    False. For a person can lose their justification and will demonstrate that they were reprobate if they die this way. This is the perseverance of the saints heresy espoused by Calvin, that all who are justified necessarily persevere and are elect. The Catholic teaching is that some who are just fall away from their justice.


    How many ways to Tuesday can this bod argument fail? Boom.


    Wow, is THAT convincing!
    "there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

    Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.

    Offline happenby

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    Feeneyism condemned by Pope Gregory XVI
    « Reply #141 on: March 18, 2017, 04:57:17 PM »
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  • Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    Quote from: happenby
    Quote from: Gregory I
    Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    Quote from: happenby
    So Bumph, do you also deny that God gets Baptism for all His elect?  Remember now, Baptism and bod have different definitions and properties, so don't presume to insert bod here, it doesn't apply.    

    Naturally, you true Catholics, champions of Baptism and Church doctrine...notice that he won't answer the question directly because he cannot answer it and still hold bod.   If he denies it, he runs against St. Robert Bellarmine and scripture at the very least. If he admits it, the discussion ended and he finally agrees with Church teaching.  Rather, he will be forced by his erroneous convictions to wallow in ad hominem or deflect. You're all tired and bored of it, but watch the inevitable...


    It has been said here already that baptism of desire, though not the Sacraments, participates in that particular Sacrament. Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect.

    The quote by the Roman Catechism is very clear that adults can go to heaven without baptism by water. You are once again arguing with the Church. Very serious.


    You just fell into Calvinism, "Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect."

    False. For a person can lose their justification and will demonstrate that they were reprobate if they die this way. This is the perseverance of the saints heresy espoused by Calvin, that all who are justified necessarily persevere and are elect. The Catholic teaching is that some who are just fall away from their justice.


    How many ways to Tuesday can this bod argument fail? Boom.


    Wow, is THAT convincing!


    Yours never is.

    Offline BumphreyHogart

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    Feeneyism condemned by Pope Gregory XVI
    « Reply #142 on: March 18, 2017, 05:20:59 PM »
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  • Quote from: happenby
    Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    Quote from: happenby
    Quote from: Gregory I
    Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    Quote from: happenby
    So Bumph, do you also deny that God gets Baptism for all His elect?  Remember now, Baptism and bod have different definitions and properties, so don't presume to insert bod here, it doesn't apply.    

    Naturally, you true Catholics, champions of Baptism and Church doctrine...notice that he won't answer the question directly because he cannot answer it and still hold bod.   If he denies it, he runs against St. Robert Bellarmine and scripture at the very least. If he admits it, the discussion ended and he finally agrees with Church teaching.  Rather, he will be forced by his erroneous convictions to wallow in ad hominem or deflect. You're all tired and bored of it, but watch the inevitable...


    It has been said here already that baptism of desire, though not the Sacraments, participates in that particular Sacrament. Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect.

    The quote by the Roman Catechism is very clear that adults can go to heaven without baptism by water. You are once again arguing with the Church. Very serious.


    You just fell into Calvinism, "Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect."

    False. For a person can lose their justification and will demonstrate that they were reprobate if they die this way. This is the perseverance of the saints heresy espoused by Calvin, that all who are justified necessarily persevere and are elect. The Catholic teaching is that some who are just fall away from their justice.


    How many ways to Tuesday can this bod argument fail? Boom.


    Wow, is THAT convincing!


    Yours never is.
    ]

    It's almost impossible to convince a person such as you who is so riddled with errors that he cannot think straight, but I am happy to interact with you for the sake of the lurkers.
    "there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

    Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.


    Offline happenby

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    Feeneyism condemned by Pope Gregory XVI
    « Reply #143 on: March 18, 2017, 05:39:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    Quote from: happenby
    Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    Quote from: happenby
    Quote from: Gregory I
    Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    Quote from: happenby
    So Bumph, do you also deny that God gets Baptism for all His elect?  Remember now, Baptism and bod have different definitions and properties, so don't presume to insert bod here, it doesn't apply.    

    Naturally, you true Catholics, champions of Baptism and Church doctrine...notice that he won't answer the question directly because he cannot answer it and still hold bod.   If he denies it, he runs against St. Robert Bellarmine and scripture at the very least. If he admits it, the discussion ended and he finally agrees with Church teaching.  Rather, he will be forced by his erroneous convictions to wallow in ad hominem or deflect. You're all tired and bored of it, but watch the inevitable...


    It has been said here already that baptism of desire, though not the Sacraments, participates in that particular Sacrament. Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect.

    The quote by the Roman Catechism is very clear that adults can go to heaven without baptism by water. You are once again arguing with the Church. Very serious.


    You just fell into Calvinism, "Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect."

    False. For a person can lose their justification and will demonstrate that they were reprobate if they die this way. This is the perseverance of the saints heresy espoused by Calvin, that all who are justified necessarily persevere and are elect. The Catholic teaching is that some who are just fall away from their justice.


    How many ways to Tuesday can this bod argument fail? Boom.


    Wow, is THAT convincing!


    Yours never is.
    ]

    It's almost impossible to convince a person such as you who is so riddled with errors that he cannot think straight, but I am happy to interact with you for the sake of the lurkers.



    Aw, and I just dismissed you on the other thread.  But I was nice about it.  :-)

    Offline BumphreyHogart

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    Feeneyism condemned by Pope Gregory XVI
    « Reply #144 on: March 18, 2017, 06:21:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: happenby
    Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    Quote from: happenby
    Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    Quote from: happenby
    Quote from: Gregory I
    Quote from: BumphreyHogart
    Quote from: happenby
    So Bumph, do you also deny that God gets Baptism for all His elect?  Remember now, Baptism and bod have different definitions and properties, so don't presume to insert bod here, it doesn't apply.    

    Naturally, you true Catholics, champions of Baptism and Church doctrine...notice that he won't answer the question directly because he cannot answer it and still hold bod.   If he denies it, he runs against St. Robert Bellarmine and scripture at the very least. If he admits it, the discussion ended and he finally agrees with Church teaching.  Rather, he will be forced by his erroneous convictions to wallow in ad hominem or deflect. You're all tired and bored of it, but watch the inevitable...


    It has been said here already that baptism of desire, though not the Sacraments, participates in that particular Sacrament. Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect.

    The quote by the Roman Catechism is very clear that adults can go to heaven without baptism by water. You are once again arguing with the Church. Very serious.


    You just fell into Calvinism, "Anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the elect."

    False. For a person can lose their justification and will demonstrate that they were reprobate if they die this way. This is the perseverance of the saints heresy espoused by Calvin, that all who are justified necessarily persevere and are elect. The Catholic teaching is that some who are just fall away from their justice.


    How many ways to Tuesday can this bod argument fail? Boom.


    Wow, is THAT convincing!


    Yours never is.
    ]

    It's almost impossible to convince a person such as you who is so riddled with errors that he cannot think straight, but I am happy to interact with you for the sake of the lurkers.



    Aw, and I just dismissed you on the other thread.  But I was nice about it.  :-)


    Aw.
    "there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

    Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.

    Offline Gregory I

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    Feeneyism condemned by Pope Gregory XVI
    « Reply #145 on: March 18, 2017, 10:40:28 PM »
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  • What you probably meant was that anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the faithful. Right?
    'Take care not to resemble the multitude whose knowledge of God's will only condemns them to more severe punishment.'

    -St. John of Avila


    Offline happenby

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    Feeneyism condemned by Pope Gregory XVI
    « Reply #146 on: March 19, 2017, 12:23:54 AM »
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  • Quote from: Gregory I
    What you probably meant was that anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the faithful. Right?



    St. Robert Bellarmine says that God gets Baptism for all his elect.

    Scripture attests to this: Romans 8:30 tells us:   And whom he predestined, them he also called. And whom he called, them he also justified. And whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    So, of those who receive glory, all were predestined, but, they were first called and then justified.  This doesn't mean that all who are called are justified, nor that all who are justified are glorified, but rather, from a finished point of view, from heaven's view looking back to the beginnings of those who obtained glory, scripture explains that God called and justified the glorified in heaven.  Now, since the promulgation of the gospel, after Christ, those people predestined to heaven obtain Baptism because Christ made it mandatory.  For those born prior to Christ, faith alone obtained glory once Christ died and rose and ascended.  


    Baptism is the distinctive mark of all Christians, and serves to differentiate them from those who have not been cleansed in this purifying stream and who, consequently, are not members of Christ.

    Pope Pius XII

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Feeneyism condemned by Pope Gregory XVI
    « Reply #147 on: March 19, 2017, 07:47:24 PM »
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  • What you probably meant was that anyone obtaining faith and sanctifying grace is part of the faithful. Right?
    Even pro-BoD Msgr. Fenton admits that catechumens were NOT part of the fideles or faithful and that one of the EENS defintions states that there can be no salvation outside the "Church of the faithful".  That's also a strong argument against BoD.

     

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