I've intended many times to start a thread about what makes a person believe in "salvation outside the Church by whatever".  Then I always just say forget it. Well, after many years of debates and discussions with BODers, here I go in my conclusion as to the cause of their ludicrous final belief that someone can be saved despite not having any explicit desire to be baptized, nor to be a Catholic, nor belief in the Trinity and the Incarnation. This is what 99% of BODers end up having to believe. Only a handful can escape the grip of the ultimate conclusion.


I believe that it starts with disbelief in EENS, "it just can't be", then from there they seek their teaches, disregarding or rationalizing all the inconsistencies.   Cekada wrote just that years ago:

The SSPV, The Roman Catholic,  Fall 2003, p. 7: “With the strict, literal interpretation of this doctrine, however, I must take issue, for if I read and understand the strict interpreters correctly, nowhere is allowance made for invincible ignorance, conscience, or good faith on the part of those who are not actual or formal members of the Church at the moment of death.  It is inconceivable to me that, of all the billions of non-Catholics who have died in the past nineteen and one-half centuries, none of them were in good faith in this matter and, if they were, I simply refuse to believe that hell is their eternal destiny.”

He is saying that someone who is not baptized, can still be saved by their conscience and "good faith", even if they have no explicit desire to be baptized, nor a desire to be a Catholic, nor belief in Christ and the Trinity.

In this belief he goes all the way to reject ALL the Fathers, Doctors, Saints, The Athanasian Creed, The Council and the Catechism of  Trent,  all the catechisms prior to the 20th century.... in other words, he rejects ALL of tradition, he rejects the universal ordinary magisterium, and the solemn magisterium.  

And this is what happens to all BODers, it is like drug use, they start out in disbelief and snatch on to the relatively harmless drug of baptism of desire of the catechumen, and end up in the Heroin of "someone who is not baptized, can still be saved by their conscience and "good faith", even if they have no explicit desire to be baptized, nor a desire to be a Catholic, nor belief in Christ and the Trinity".

The foundation of the addiction is as Fr. Cekada admits:  "It is inconceivable to me that, of all the billions of non-Catholics,.... none of them were in good faith in this matter and, if they were, I simply refuse to believe that hell is their eternal destiny.”

Then from there they seek their teaches according to their own desires, disregarding or rationalizing all the inconsistencies, and they are at EVERY TURN.

All the infallible decrees on the sacrament of baptism fit together perfectly, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.  In all honesty even BODers must admit that if the Holy Ghost had any intention of defining an excuse like BOD at Trent, he does it in most obscure language. On the other hand, the meaning of Trent and tradition (the unanimous opinion of the Fathers) is clear and intelligible if we do not try to force a reference to "BOD" in between the lines.

John 3:5 Is to be Understood Literally, as it is Written

The  Fathers of the Church are unanimous from the beginning of the apostolic age that John 3:5 is to be understood literally, as it is written. So as not to clog this posting with all of the quotes of Early Church Fathers who believed in John 3:5 as it is written, I quote:

Fr. William Jurgens: “If there were not a constant tradition in the Fathers that the Gospel message of ‘Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost he cannot enter into the kingdom of God’ is to be taken absolutely, it would be easy to say that Our Savior simply did not see fit to mention the obvious exceptions of invincible ignorance and physical impossibility.  But the tradition in fact is there; and it is likely enough to be found so constant as to constitute revelation.”


Council of Trent, Session VI  (Jan. 13, 1547)
Decree on Justification,
Chapter IV.

A description is introduced of the Justification of the impious, and of the Manner thereof under the law of grace.

By which words, a description of the Justification of the impious is indicated,-as being a translation, from that state wherein man is born a child of the first Adam, to the state of grace, and of the adoption of the sons of God, through the second Adam, Jesus Christ, our Saviour. And this translation, since the promulgation of the Gospel, cannot be effected, without the laver of regeneration, or the desire thereof, as it is written; unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God (John 3:5).

Chapter VII.

What the justification of the impious is, and what are the causes thereof.

This disposition, or preparation, is followed by Justification itself, which is not remission of sins merely, but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man, through the voluntary reception of the grace, and of the gifts, whereby man of unjust becomes just, and of an enemy a friend, that so he may be an heir according to hope of life everlasting.

Of this Justification the causes are these: the final cause indeed is the glory of God and of Jesus Christ, and life everlasting; while the efficient cause is a merciful God who washes and sanctifies gratuitously, signing, and anointing with the holy Spirit of promise, who is the pledge of our inheritance; but the meritorious cause is His most beloved only-begotten, our Lord Jesus Christ, who, when we were enemies, for the exceeding charity wherewith he loved us, merited Justification for us by His most holy Passion on the wood of the cross, and made satisfaction for us unto God the Father; the instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is the sacrament of faith, without which no man was ever justified;

Council of Trent. Seventh Session. March, 1547. Decree on the Sacraments.
On Baptism

Canon 2. If anyone shall say that real and natural water is not necessary for baptism, and on that account those words of our Lord Jesus Christ: "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God (John 3:5), are distorted into some metaphor: let him be anathema.

Canon 5. If any one saith, that baptism is optional, that is, not necessary unto salvation; let him be anathema

The SSPV, The Roman Catholic,  Fall 2003, p. 7: “With the strict, literal interpretation of this doctrine, however, I must take issue, for if I read and understand the strict interpreters correctly, nowhere is allowance made for invincible ignorance, conscience, or good faith on the part of those who are not actual or formal members of the Church at the moment of death.  It is inconceivable to me that, of all the billions of non-Catholics who have died in the past nineteen and one-half centuries, none of them were in good faith in this matter and, if they were, I simply refuse to believe that hell is their eternal destiny.”

Good quote as Fr. pretty much cuts right to the chase - "I simply refuse to believe...."

.

This view, which has influenced the official Church doctrine, is theologically close to Christian universalism, the teaching that all may be saved by divine grace.

This is the same 'grace' that BoD-ers believe takes the place of Baptism, and gives the unbaptized the sanctifying grace necessary to save them from hell, even while the Council of Trent defined otherwise, that anyone who says that baptism with natural water is not necessary for salvation, let him be anathema.  

Trent was only going by what the infallible Gospel of St. John has there (iii. 5) in black and white for all to see, and blessed by the centuries of the Faith since Apostolic times.

We make a big mistake when we think we are able to understand everything that Our Lord revealed to the Apostles and has been handed down through the ages.  We are given the Catholic Faith and we are duty bound to accept it, whole and entire.

Modern man thinks that by our clever thinking we can circuмvent certain doctrines and believe otherwise.  


Anyone who "simply refuses to believe" that hell is packed with people who were not inside the Church by way of Baptism and the Sacraments and their faith in God as revealed to man in person by Our Lord, are in for a big surprise.  

When asked about this disbelief, about what to do when my friend doesn't believe in hell or how many people are there, Padre Pio said, That's okay.  Just tell your friend he can doubt about hell all he wants to for now, but he won't have any more doubts the moment he arrives there.


.

Pope Pius IX, On Promotion of False Doctrines

    "7. Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments."
    "8. Also well known is the Catholic teaching that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church. Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff, to whom 'the custody of the vineyard has been committed by the Savior.'(Ecuмenical Council of Chalcedon in its letter to Pope Leo.) The words of Christ are clear enough: 'If he refuses to listen even to the Church, let him be to you a Gentile and a tax collector;'(Mt 15.17.) 'He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you, rejects me, and he who rejects me, rejects him who sent me;'(Lk 10.16.) 'He who does not believe will be condemned;'(Mk 16.16.) 'He who does not believe is already condemned;'(Jn 3.18.) 'He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.'(Lk 11.23.) The Apostle Paul says that such persons are 'perverted and self-condemned;'(Ti 3.11.) the Prince of the Apostles calls them 'false teachers . . . who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master. . . bringing upon themselves swift destruction.'(2 Pt 2.1.) "
[Quanto Conficiamur Moerore, August 10, 1863.]

I have made a collection of authoritative quotes on the subject.

I pray that our Eternal Father would graciously bless each of us, you and yours, now and always.

No Traditional Catholic including Fr. Cekada ever said "there IS salvation OUTSIDE the Catholic Church." This is just another pointless thread!

Did you miss the OP?

It is inconceivable to me that, of all the billions of non-Catholics who have died in the past nineteen and one-half centuries, none of them were in good faith in this matter and, if they were, I simply refuse to believe that hell is their eternal destiny.”

Does it sound like he is preaching the dogma or that the dogma is inconceivable to him therefore he refuses to believe it?










 

Quote from: GregorianChat

No Traditional Catholic including Fr. Cekada ever said "there IS salvation OUTSIDE the Catholic Church." This is just another pointless thread!

Did you miss the OP?

Quote from: Fr. Cekada

It is inconceivable to me that, of all the billions of non-Catholics who have died in the past nineteen and one-half centuries, none of them were in good faith in this matter and, if they were, I simply refuse to believe that hell is their eternal destiny.”

Does it sound like he is preaching the dogma or that the dogma is inconceivable to him therefore he refuses to believe it?


 

To my reading of the quote provided, with of course a Catholic bias, the good Father is simply stating that there have been "billions of non-Catholics who have died" and that if there was one of them that was in good faith, it would seem inconceivable that that one would suffer the eternal pains of hell.

Quote from: GregorianChat

No Traditional Catholic including Fr. Cekada ever said "there IS salvation OUTSIDE the Catholic Church." This is just another pointless thread!

I thank Our Lord and Our Lady for showing me my stubbornness and pride and pulling out of Feeneyism!

There is No Such Thing as 'Geo-centrism', 'Helio-centrism', 'Sede Vacantism', or 'Feeneyism'.  

1) Fr Cekada has stated in the OP that he believes the church is not necessary for salvation. He is a vain heretic.

2) There is such a thing as Sedevacantism, for we are in sedevacante.