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Author Topic: Baptismofdesire.com  (Read 97108 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Baptismofdesire.com
« Reply #750 on: May 24, 2025, 06:55:58 PM »
I myself hold the See to be vacant but maintain that both sides err regarding the scope of infallibility.

Unfortunately, in combatting the errors of R&R, the SVs have grossly exaggerated the inerrancy of papal teaching, and even absurdly extend it to the consensus of theologians (something that I call Cekadism, and which Msgr. Fenton rejects as erroneous).

For all that SVs tout pre V2 theologians, I defy them to find a single one who extends infallibility to the ridiculous extent that they do.

On the other side, while papal Magisterium is not absolutely inerrant, if it can get so corrupted that Catholics may and even must refuse submission to and communion with the Pope, and can't say the same Mass, or recognize their saints ... they would have the Church defect.  That is not possible ... as Archbishop Lefebvre agreed.

Re: Baptismofdesire.com
« Reply #751 on: May 25, 2025, 04:41:24 PM »
Why does anyone care what an excommunicated priest said about theology, or about anything, really? He was not authorized by the Church...
Well first off, many believe that John XXIII was a valid Pope and as such his excommunication was lifted. Others believe that his excommunication came not from from Pope Pius XII, but (if I'm not mistaken) the Holy Office, which was part of the same structure they believe got turned inside out just years later at Vatican ii. Still others believe that the Church was becoming increasingly lax on the salvation dogma (culminating at Vatican ii) and such an excommunication was merely an effect of that, and as such can be treated as if it didn't happen. 

In short, he went against the grain, in a big way, and so attracted a lot of attention. As you probably know, there are some Priests who will deny communion to those who hold his beliefs so it is not only his followers who care what he thought. 

Also, no trad clergy can really be "authorized" by the Church until we get a Pope. Sure there is supplied jurisdiction but there is currently no hierarchy that operates on the basis of giving imprimaturs or clearing up current theological controversies. Such is the nature of the crisis. 

(Sure this was tongue and cheek but so was the question)


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Baptismofdesire.com
« Reply #752 on: May 26, 2025, 12:21:13 AM »
+ABL was excommunicated for theological disagreements with V2.  (And if new-Rome wanted to, they could easily excommunicate every single Trad cleric in the world).  Ergo, using your flawed logic, why should anyone convert/follow Tradition if they aren’t approved?

Re: Baptismofdesire.com
« Reply #753 on: May 26, 2025, 12:59:08 AM »
+ABL was excommunicated for theological disagreements with V2.  (And if new-Rome wanted to, they could easily excommunicate every single Trad cleric in the world).  Ergo, using your flawed logic, why should anyone convert/follow Tradition if they aren’t approved?
Because the Vatican ii anti-popes and their henchmen have no right to approve of or disprove of anything on God's behalf. 

Offline OABrownson1876

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Re: Baptismofdesire.com
« Reply #754 on: May 27, 2025, 10:19:25 PM »
"There can be no more fatal mistake than to soften, liberalize, or latitudinize this terrible dogma, 'Out of the Church there is no salvation,' or to give a man an opportunity to persuade himself that he belongs to the soul of the Church, though an alien from the body."

Orestes Brownson, Works, vol. 20, p.414

And some of you try and distort Brownson's writings to support your own deranged, unphilosophical, uncatholic, imaginary ideas about Catholic theology.