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Author Topic: Baptism of Desire not defined dogma, per theological consensus  (Read 39673 times)

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Offline trad123

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Baptism of Desire not defined dogma, per theological consensus
« on: February 19, 2021, 01:00:45 PM »
From page 9 of the PDF, at this URL

http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=27



Theologian or CanonistPage in Dossier        Theol. Category Bapt. of Desire             Theol. Category Bapt. of Blood
1. Abarzuza2de fide, theol. certtheol. cert.
2. Aertnys7de fideteaches
3. Billot10-20teachesteaches
4. Cappello23teachescertain
5. Coronata28de fideteaches
6. Davis32teachesteaches
7. Herrmann35de fidepertains to faith
8. Hervé38theol. cert.theol. cert. at least
9. Hurter44teachesteaches
10. Iorio47teachesteaches
11. Lennerz49-59teachesteaches
12. Ligouri61-62de fideteaches
13. McAuliffe67cath. doctrinecomm. cert. teaching
14. Merkelbach71certaincertain
15. Noldin74teachesteaches
16. Ott77fidei proximafidei proxima
17. Pohle81cath. doctrinecert. doctrine
18. Prümmer89de fideconstant doctrine
19. Regatillo.91, 96de fideteaches
20. Sabetti98teachesteaches
21. Sola102fidei proximatheol. certain
22. Tanquerey107,111certaincertain
23. Zalba114teachesteaches
24. Zubizarreta118teachesteaches
25. Bellarmine120teachesteaches
 
 Résumé of Theological Categories               
 
 Bapt. of Desire
 
 Bapt. of Blood
Common teaching of the doctrines25 (all)25 (all)
Theologically certain, certain38
Catholic doctrine, constant21
fidei proxima, pertains to faith22
de fide (of the faith)70




Offline trad123

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Re: Baptism of Desire not defined dogma, per theological consensus
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2021, 01:00:54 PM »
1. Francisco Javier de Abárzuza (20th century)
2. Joseph Aertnys (1828-1915)
3. Louis Billot (1846-1931)
4. Felix Maria Cappello (1879-1962)
5. Matthaeus Conte a Coronata (1889-1961)
6. Henry Davis (1866-1952)
7. R. P. J. Herrmann (18th - 19th century)
8. Jean Marie Hervé (1881-1958)
9. Hugo von Hurter (1832-1914)
10. Thomas A. Iorio (20th century)
11. Heinrich Lennerz (1880–1961)
12. Alphonsus De Liguori (1696–1787)
13. Clarence R. McAuliffe (20th century)
14. Benoit Henri Merkelbach (1871-1942)
15. Hieronymus Noldin (1838-1922)
16. Ludwig Ott (1906-1985)
17. Joseph Pohle (1852-1922)
18. Dominic M. Prummer (20th century)
19. Eduardo Fernández Regatillo (1882-1975)
20. Luigi Sabetti (1839-1898)
21. Francisco Marín-Sola (1897-1932)
22. Adolphe Alfred Tanquerey (1854-1932)
23. Antonio María Arregui-Zalba (1863-1942)
24. Valentín Zubizarreta (1862-1948)
25. Robert Bellarmine (1542-1621)


Offline trad123

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Re: Baptism of Desire not defined dogma, per theological consensus
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2021, 01:01:14 PM »
All theologians cited were born after the Council of Trent.

Offline trad123

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Re: Baptism of Desire not defined dogma, per theological consensus
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2021, 01:05:14 PM »
https://www.cathinfo.com/baptism-of-desire-and-feeneyism/baptism-of-desire-de-fide/


Quote
Mr. Don Paolo, Ambrose, and Lover of Truth have all claimed that Baptism of Desire is de fide, i.e. Catholic dogma and have accordingly accused "Feeneyites" of "heresy".

But in Father Cekada's infamous screed about Baptism of Desire, he lists 25 Pre-Vatican II theologians; only SEVEN of the TWENTY-FIVE, fewer than one third, qualify Baptism of Desire with the theological note of de fide, with the rest, the vast majority, qualifying it with a theological note of something less than de fide.  Very interestingly, ZERO of the 25 qualify Baptism of Blood as de fide even though you can find more Patristic evidence for BoB than for BoD.

In the final analysis, it's not de fide that BoD is de fide, so the accusations of heresy on the part of "Feeneyites" is nothing but a minority theological opinion adhered to by Mr. Don Paolo, Ambrose, and Lover of Truth.  If they were truthly faithful to Catholic authority, then they would drop the heresy allegation against "Feeneyites".

Even Fr. Cekada cannot conclude by claiming that those who reject Baptism of Desire are heretics, just that they commit a grave sin against the faith (two different things).  So those like DP, Ambrose, and LoT who claim that those who reject BoD are heretics (i.e. non-Catholics) are actually schismatic for considering outside the Church those whom the Church does not consider to be outside the Church.


https://www.cathinfo.com/baptism-of-desire-and-feeneyism/baptism-of-desire-de-fide/msg413328/#msg413328



Quote
Here's another point regarding the simplistic approach to the Magisterium taken by Ambrose, LoT, and many sedevacantists.

For about, oh, say, 1500-1600 years at least, it was universally taught and believed, without dissent, that explicit belief in the Holy Trinity and Incarnation were necessary for salvation.  Therefore, according to Ambrose, LoT, et al. this would have rendered that belief a dogma.  Yet the same Ambrose and LoT claim that the relatively-recent innovation by modern theologians in that regard is now acceptable when they should, based on their own principles, have denounced it as heresy out of the gate.


Re: Baptism of Desire not defined dogma, per theological consensus
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2021, 06:14:18 PM »
Thank you for bringing this to the forum's attention again.  I did not know that Fr Cekada (RIP) had written an article on the topic.  I think the final tally of the theologians is very interesting.