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Author Topic: Baptism of Desire is Church Teaching  (Read 57493 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Baptism of Desire is Church Teaching
« Reply #95 on: September 17, 2024, 05:28:22 AM »
Check the dates, moron.  I said from St. Augustine til about 1100 ... yet you paste something from St. Gregory nαzιanzen in the mid 300s ... ironic also because St. Gregory nαzιanzen explicitly rejects BoD.  This is explained in the Catholic Encyclopedia article on Limbo.  Look it up where it details how it was universally held until first challenged by Abelard.

Re: Baptism of Desire is Church Teaching
« Reply #96 on: September 17, 2024, 06:01:15 AM »
Check the dates, moron.  I said from St. Augustine til about 1100 ... yet you paste something from St. Gregory nαzιanzen in the mid 300s ... ironic also because St. Gregory nαzιanzen explicitly rejects BoD.  This is explained in the Catholic Encyclopedia article on Limbo.  Look it up where it details how it was universally held until first challenged by Abelard.

This saint Gregory nαzιanzen?


“…let us speak about the different kinds of Baptism, that we may come out thence purified. Moses baptized Leviticus xi but it was in water, and before that in the cloud and in the sea. I Corinthians 10:2 This was typical as Paul says; the Sea of the water, and the Cloud of the Spirit; the Manna, of the Bread of Life; the Drink, of the Divine Drink. John also baptized; but this was not like the baptism of the Jews, for it was not only in water, but also unto repentance. Still it was not wholly spiritual, for he does not add And in the Spirit. Jesus also baptized, but in the Spirit. This is the perfect Baptism. And how is He not God, if I may digress a little, by whom you too are made God? I know also a Fourth Baptism— that by Martyrdom and blood, which also Christ himself underwent:— and this one is far more august than all the others, inasmuch as it cannot be defiled by after-stains. Yes, and I know of a Fifth also, which is that of tears, and is much more laborious, received by him who washes his bed every night and his couch with tears; whose bruises stink through his wickedness; and who goes mourning and of a sad countenance; who imitates the repentance of Manasseh Ninevites Jonah 3:7-10 upon which God had mercy; who utters the words of the Publican in the Temple, and is justified rather than the stiff-necked Pharisee; Luke 18:13 who like the Canaanite woman bends down and asks for mercy and crumbs, the food of a dog that is very hungry. Matthew 15:27”

C'mon Foul Mouther, what are the other Fathers you have there that "explicitly" deny BOD or BOB. Let's see the list that NY bros hand out. 


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Baptism of Desire is Church Teaching
« Reply #97 on: September 17, 2024, 07:28:11 AM »
This saint Gregory nαzιanzen?

Wrong again, but then you continue to lie and distort.  He's not referring to anything that can supply for Baptism in terms of permitting/enabling entry into the Kingdom.  Many Fathers referred to various "Baptisms" in an analogous sense.  He explicitly rejected that the desire/intention could lead to "glory" in the Kingdom, as do nearly all the Church Fathers (except for the retracted youthful speculation of St. Augustine).  But keep lying, scuмbag.

Fathers who reject BoD (including St. Gregory nαzιanzen, despite your lies) have been listed myriad times here on this forum.  In fact, even Rahner (who promoted "Anonymous Christian" theory and disagreed with the Fathers) had the intellectual honesty that you lack, and admitted that there was no Patristic support for BoD, listing a number of the Fathers who rejected it.  I can find those quotes for others, or a link to them ... but not for your sake, since you're a bad-willed dirtbag.

And, of course, yet another subject change ... since I was referring to St. Gregory as coming before St. Augustine and therefore having nothing to do with my earlier statement (backed by Catholic Encyclopedia) that St. Augustine's opinion regarding unbaptized children was held universally for about 700 years after him.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Baptism of Desire is Church Teaching
« Reply #98 on: September 17, 2024, 07:36:20 AM »

Re: Baptism of Desire is Church Teaching
« Reply #99 on: September 17, 2024, 08:30:07 AM »
Wrong again, but then you continue to lie and distort.  He's not referring to anything that can supply for Baptism in terms of permitting/enabling entry into the Kingdom.  Many Fathers referred to various "Baptisms" in an analogous sense.  He explicitly rejected that the desire/intention could lead to "glory" in the Kingdom, as do nearly all the Church Fathers (except for the retracted youthful speculation of St. Augustine).  But keep lying, scuмbag.

Fathers who reject BoD (including St. Gregory nαzιanzen, despite your lies) have been listed myriad times here on this forum.  In fact, even Rahner (who promoted "Anonymous Christian" theory and disagreed with the Fathers) had the intellectual honesty that you lack, and admitted that there was no Patristic support for BoD, listing a number of the Fathers who rejected it.  I can find those quotes for others, or a link to them ... but not for your sake, since you're a bad-willed dirtbag.

And, of course, yet another subject change ... since I was referring to St. Gregory as coming before St. Augustine and therefore having nothing to do with my earlier statement (backed by Catholic Encyclopedia) that St. Augustine's opinion regarding unbaptized children was held universally for about 700 years after him.

Lol, of course I'm wrong. It only matters what Dimonds allow you to think. So cath encyclopedia is a valid source of info when you quote it, but when I quote that common opinion historically is that there is bob/bod, burn it. That's the consistency I'm talking about. 

Early Fathers had split opinion (so no consensus). If you have these Fathers that have written on the topic after Augustine and Before Thomas Aquinas, quote them and I will look into. Who are they? Where is 700 years of writing about the topic? 

St. Thomas Aquinas said children depravation of God involves no pain, and is such that the babies do not even know what they have missed (St. Thomas, De Malo q. 5, a. 3 ad 4).  

You remind me of Luther with that snake's tongue, Mr Tourette. You just keep spitting poison every time you speak. 

Now show us your famous anti-bod Fathers list... Who are those 8 Church Fathers you are talking about?