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Author Topic: Baptism of Desire is Church Teaching  (Read 57454 times)

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Offline EternalKeys

Baptism of Desire is Church Teaching
« on: August 26, 2024, 01:55:04 AM »
Catechism of the Council of Trent (or Roman Catechism)
"On this class of persons, however, the Church was not accustomed to confer this sacrament immediately, but ordained that it should be deferred to a certain time, nor is the delay attended with the danger already noticed in the case of infants, for, should any unforeseen accident render it impossible for adults to be baptised, their intention of receiving it, and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness"

"In Dominico Argo" encyclical by Pope Clement XIII
"As our predecessors understood that that holy meeting of the universal Church was so prudent in judgment and so moderate that it abstained from condemning ideas which authorities among Church scholars supported, they wanted another work prepared with the agreement of that holy council which would cover the entire teaching which the faithful should know and which would be far removed from any error. They printed and distributed this book under the title of The Roman Catechism. There are aspects of their action worthy of special praise. In it they compiled the teaching which is common to the whole Church and which is far removed from every danger of error, and they proposed to transmit it openly to the faithful in very eloquent words according to the precept of Christ the Lord who told the apostles to proclaim in the light what He had said in the dark and to proclaim from the rooftops what they heard in secret."

Since the encyclical of Pope Clement XIII declared that there are no errors contained within the Roman Catechism, and since the Catechism teaches that which would typically be referred to as "baptism of desire", "baptism of desire" is not erroneous, but the teaching of the Church.

May all come to the truth of Catholicism and the Pope (see "Catholic Truth" on YouTube for more information). 
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Offline AnthonyPadua

  • Supporter
Re: Baptism of Desire is Church Teaching
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2024, 03:51:41 AM »
Quote from: EternalKeys on August 26, 2024, 01:55:04 AM
Catechism of the Council of Trent (or Roman Catechism)
"On this class of persons, however, the Church was not accustomed to confer this sacrament immediately, but ordained that it should be deferred to a certain time, nor is the delay attended with the danger already noticed in the case of infants, for, should any unforeseen accident render it impossible for adults to be baptised, their intention of receiving it, and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness"

"In Dominico Argo" encyclical by Pope Clement XIII
"As our predecessors understood that that holy meeting of the universal Church was so prudent in judgment and so moderate that it abstained from condemning ideas which authorities among Church scholars supported, they wanted another work prepared with the agreement of that holy council which would cover the entire teaching which the faithful should know and which would be far removed from any error. They printed and distributed this book under the title of The Roman Catechism. There are aspects of their action worthy of special praise. In it they compiled the teaching which is common to the whole Church and which is far removed from every danger of error, and they proposed to transmit it openly to the faithful in very eloquent words according to the precept of Christ the Lord who told the apostles to proclaim in the light what He had said in the dark and to proclaim from the rooftops what they heard in secret."

Since the encyclical of Pope Clement XIII declared that there are no errors contained within the Roman Catechism, and since the Catechism teaches that which would typically be referred to as "baptism of desire", "baptism of desire" is not erroneous, but the teaching of the Church.

May all come to the truth of Catholicism and the Pope (see "Catholic Truth" on YouTube for more information).
You are assuming the Catechism teaches BoD, it doesn't. It's typical for people who believe BoD to read into it. God will bring a person baptism, that is what it means by "avail". Also the Catechism is not infallible and your second statement doesn't mean what you are implying because the Catechism teaches that souls are created some time after conception and not immediadtely which is an error.
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Online Stubborn

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Re: Baptism of Desire is Church Teaching
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2024, 04:30:17 AM »
Quote from: AnthonyPadua on August 26, 2024, 03:51:41 AM
You are assuming the Catechism teaches BoD, it doesn't. It's typical for people who believe BoD to read into it. God will bring a person baptism, that is what it means by "avail". Also the Catechism is not infallible and your second statement doesn't mean what you are implying because the Catechism teaches that souls are created some time after conception and not immediadtely which is an error.
Yes this^

The catechism first off states that there is no danger of death involved, if there were, then the adult must be be baptized asap like infants who are more prone shall we say, to die at any time. However, when there actually *is* the danger of death, the very next chapter teaches that "In Case Of Necessity Adults May Be Baptized At Once."

To continue with  the first part where it says: "should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness."

Note that "grace and righteousness" are attributes of the living, not the dead. Neither Trent nor it's catechism are talking about the attainment of salvation here, which is an attribute of the dead, not the living, which means quoting this part of the catechism to show it's contrariness to John 3:5 and Trent's application of it, is a non sequitur.

Also note that there is no mention of accidental death, only an "unforeseen accident," which could mean literally any unforeseen event *except death* that impedes the catechumen from receiving the sacrament as planned, anything from the priest having to reschedule due to an emergency, to the catechumen's car not starting, to whatever other "unforeseen accident" you can think of, except unforeseen accidental death.
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Online Stubborn

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Re: Baptism of Desire is Church Teaching
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2024, 11:57:17 AM »
Quote from: AnthonyPadua on August 26, 2024, 03:51:41 AM
You are assuming the Catechism teaches BoD, it doesn't. It's typical for people who believe BoD to read into it. God will bring a person baptism, that is what it means by "avail". Also the Catechism is not infallible and your second statement doesn't mean what you are implying because the Catechism teaches that souls are created some time after conception and not immediadtely which is an error.
Catechism of the Council of Trent:

Necessity of Baptism
If the knowledge of what has been hitherto explained be, as it is, of highest importance to the faithful, it is no
less important to them to learn that the law of Baptism, as established by our Lord, extends to all, so that unless they are regenerated to God through the grace of Baptism, be their parents Christians or infidels, they are born to eternal misery and destruction. Pastors, therefore, should often explain these words of the Gospel:

Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

How do BODers understand this teaching of Trent?
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Offline anonymouscatholicus

Re: Baptism of Desire is Church Teaching
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2024, 12:25:41 PM »
Quote from: Stubborn on August 26, 2024, 11:57:17 AM

How do BODers understand this teaching of Trent?
We don't INTERPRET it. The beauty of it is that we allow the (Church) Fathers, catechisms, canon law etc to interpret it...

 St. Alphonsus Liguori  "Moral Theology - (Bk. 6):

   "But baptism of desire is perfect conversion to God by contrition or love of God above all things accompanied by an explicit or implicit desire for true Baptism of water, the place of which it takes as to the remission of guilt, but not as to the impression of the [baptismal] character or as to the removal of all debt of punishment. It is called 'of wind' ['flaminis'] because it takes place by the impulse of the Holy Ghost Who is called a wind ['flamen']. Now it is de fide that men are also saved by Baptism of desire, by virtue of the Canon 'Apostolicam De Presbytero Non Baptizato' and the Council of Trent, Session 6, Chapter 4, where it is said that no one can be saved 'without the laver of regeneration or the desire for it.'"

1917 Code of Canon Law

On Ecclesiastical Burial - (Canon 1239. 2)
   "Catechumens who, through no fault of their own, die without Baptism, are to be treated as baptized."
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