Author Topic: Baptism of Desire and Blood: The Teaching of the Church (Read 16215 times)

Cantarella · « **Reply #40 on:** January 21, 2014, 04:03:50 PM »

Quote from: Ambrose

Baptism of Desire and Blood are the teaching of the Church and they must be believed by Catholics.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #41 on:** January 21, 2014, 04:41:21 PM »

Answer to previous question.

Only ONE Father tentatively and temporarily floated the idea of BoD. That was St. Augustine. One can't even say that he "taught" it, certainly not with any authority behind it.

Quote from: St. Augustine

Considering this over and over again, I find that not only suffering for the name of Christ can supply for that which is lacking by way of Baptism, but even faith and conversion of heart, if recourse cannot be had to the celebration of the Mystery of Baptism

Notice how he went back and forth and then qualified his remarks with "I find", making it clearly a speculative personal opinion and not a teaching regarding the Catholic faith ... an opinion which, oh by the way, he later retracted.

All subsequent BoD comes from later Medieval theologians reviving the works of St. Augustine and exaggerating his authority. St. Bernard and pseudo-Innocent II and many others attribute their opinion to the "authority" of St. Augustine. But in the original work, he wasn't even teaching with any kind of authority, just floating a speculative opinion.

So much had Medieval theologians come to inflate the authority of St. Augustine that the Church had to actually condemn the proposition that one may accept the opinion of Augustine regardless of what the Church teaches.

After that, just gratuitous repetition of the same piece of speculative theology ... by people who simply wanted to believe it, for no other reason than that they wanted to believe it.

As I have said numerous times, THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS BOD.

Matto · « **Reply #42 on:** January 21, 2014, 04:44:40 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Only ONE Father tentatively and temporarily floated the idea of BoD. That was St. Augustine.

That is what I thought.

Stubborn · « **Reply #43 on:** January 21, 2014, 05:10:03 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

As I have said numerous times, THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS BOD.

Don't forget the frying pan!

THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS BOD.

Alcuin · « **Reply #44 on:** January 21, 2014, 06:41:12 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Ambrose

You readily admit to dismissing the teaching of the theologians. Do you have any comprehension of what you are saying?

It is always a mortal sin to reject the teaching of the theologians when they are in consensus. In this case, the teaching, however is of a higher note, as Trent taught it, it is de fide.

Shameless Hypocrite! As a sedevacantist, you commit the mortal sin of rejecting the teaching of all the Church's bishops gathered in Council at Vatican II and universally teaching Religious Liberty, Ecuмenism, etc.

Yes, I have asked this question many times before. Ambrose dismisses the teaching of approved theologians since Vatican II and its aftermath.

He cannot name an approved theologian who agrees with his position. By his own words he condemns himself!