Author Topic: Baptism of Desire Advocates: Is faith in the Sacrament required for BoD? (Read 8925 times)

MyrnaM · « **Reply #100 on:** March 15, 2021, 02:58:40 PM »

Quote from: Stubborn on March 15, 2021, 02:53:16 PM

Myrna is trying to exemplify General Absolution, something the Church actually [rarely] does, as grounds to promote a BOD, which is something the Church actually cannot ever do, or even partake of.

So Stubborn it seems you do WANT to deny General Absolution (rarely) BUT POSSIBLE, RIGHT? Same principle as BOD, you want so much to deny General absolution you add the world RARELY!
The bottom line Stubborn is, if it was never ever needed it wouldn't be in the Canon. The age we live in today, we might need General Absolution more than you imagine.

MyrnaM · « **Reply #101 on:** March 15, 2021, 02:59:56 PM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on March 15, 2021, 02:58:12 PM

No, that's heresy. Trent teaches infallibly that "true and natural water" is necessary for baptism. Trent says that these words are "not a metaphor" but reality.
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Water matters because all sacraments are part spiritual, part natural. Water + the Holy Ghost.
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You MUST explain salvation based on doctrine. If you are going to create "what if" scenarios, then you create them involving water and miracles. You don't ignore doctrine (i.e. water) and say it's a miracle. God does not contradict Himself.

Pax read your post, you are the one who created that scenario, the miracle. Not I!

Your reply #94 above

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #102 on:** March 15, 2021, 03:13:06 PM »

Keep up, Myrna. I'm talking about your "what if" where the believer died before baptism. Either 1) he wasn't a believer and wasn't saved because God read his heart and he wasn't sincere. Or 2) God worked a miracle and the believer was baptized WITH WATER before death.
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We cannot say that an unbaptized person gains heaven. We can say that the unbaptized, justified goes to Limbo only.

Stubborn · « **Reply #103 on:** March 15, 2021, 04:45:41 PM »

Quote from: MyrnaM on March 15, 2021, 02:58:40 PM

So Stubborn it seems you do WANT to deny General Absolution (rarely) BUT POSSIBLE, RIGHT? Same principle as BOD, you want so much to deny General absolution you add the world RARELY!
The bottom line Stubborn is, if it was never ever needed it wouldn't be in the Canon. The age we live in today, we might need General Absolution more than you imagine.

You either missed the moral of what I wrote, or you agree with it - which is it? Allow me to expand what I said a bit to make it a bit more obvious......

I said: "Myrna is trying to exemplify General Absolution, something the Church, (which is Christ) actually [rarely] does, as grounds to promote a BOD, which is something the Church, (which is Christ) actually cannot ever do, or even partake of".

Which is to say God plays no part whatsoever in a BOD, because if He did, a BOD could never happen. See what I mean now?

2Vermont · « **Reply #104 on:** March 15, 2021, 04:58:58 PM »

Quote from: DecemRationis on March 14, 2021, 08:59:43 AM

I'm looking into the St. Augustine "retraction" of BOD.

After about 15 minutes of doing so, let me hastily add: perhaps the "retraction" of BOD by St. Augustine is a "too easy assumption."

It appears to me that we need to be on guard when assuming the accuracy of quotes/accusations. I think I always was, but more so now.

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Author Topic: Baptism of Desire Advocates: Is faith in the Sacrament required for BoD? (Read 8925 times)

MyrnaM

Re: Baptism of Desire Advocates: Is faith in the Sacrament required for BoD?

MyrnaM

Re: Baptism of Desire Advocates: Is faith in the Sacrament required for BoD?

Pax Vobis

Re: Baptism of Desire Advocates: Is faith in the Sacrament required for BoD?

Stubborn

Re: Baptism of Desire Advocates: Is faith in the Sacrament required for BoD?

2Vermont

Re: Baptism of Desire Advocates: Is faith in the Sacrament required for BoD?