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Author Topic: Baptism of Desire Advocates: Is faith in the Sacrament required for BoD?  (Read 8972 times)

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Who allowed person #2 to die before reception of Baptism?  God.
Who knew, from all eternity, when person #2 was going to die?  God.
Who is the only person who can read hearts, and who truly knows if person #2 desired to be baptized?  God.
Can you, me or anyone swear on a bible and say we knew, with 100% clarity, that person #2 wanted to be baptized?  No.
Therefore, who stopped person #2's life, being able to read his heart, and did so with full, complete, absolute knowledge?  God.
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Are you questioning God's motives and knowledge?  Yes.
Should you repent of this sin?  Yes.
Should you beg for a greater faith in God's all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving Providential care and His all-encompassing desire that all men be saved?  Yes x 1,000,000.
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Who was saved?  I have no idea.  I can't read hearts.  All I know is who was baptized at the time of death.  Person 1 was baptized, so they had the opportunity to be saved.  Person 2 was not baptized, so they were definitely not saved.  They could have made it to Limbo and had a natural happiness.  Or, they were damned for privately rejecting baptism; only God knows.
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You just said, "You have no idea, so why go back on your word and say "Person 2 was not baptized, so they were definitely not saved. 
My point in my post a while ago, titled: In God's Eyes!  That post of mine holds the answer to your other who questions above
In God's Eyes

Offline Stubborn

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It wasn't necessary because God knew the Believer would be saved via BOD anyway, and also God wanted you Stubborn to think about the situation presented, which is what you did!  
I thought - poor Myrna, she still doesn't get it.


Online Pax Vobis

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You just said, "You have no idea, so why go back on your word and say "Person 2 was not baptized, so they were definitely not saved.
Person 1 had the chance to salvation because they were saved.  Can I say they were DEFINITELY saved, just because they were baptized?  No.  They could have been baptized, sinned mentally and been lost.  Only God knows (of the baptized) who is saved.
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All I can say is who IS NOT SAVED, which is person #2.  I know they aren't saved because of church doctrine.

Online Pax Vobis

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Myrna said:  ...the Believer would be saved via BOD

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Myrna also said:  The Church does NOT teach BOD is a substitute for the Sacrament..

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Vortex of confusion, indeed!!

Does anyone have access to the original source for this quote?  I see it copied and pasted a lot but I've never seen the original source.  I tried googling for it, but came up emptyhanded (except for other places where the quote is provided by itself).
The SSPV, The Roman Catholic,  Fall 2003, p. 7: “With the strict, literal interpretation of this doctrine, however, I must take issue, for if I read and understand the strict interpreters correctly, nowhere is allowance made for invincible ignorance, conscience, or good faith on the part of those who are not actual or formal members of the Church at the moment of death.  It is inconceivable to me that, of all the billions of non-Catholics who have died in the past nineteen and one-half centuries, none of them were in good faith in this matter and, if they were, I simply refuse to believe that hell is their eternal destiny.”

This article/quote is reproduced on MHFM:
https://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholic/heretical-traditional-priests-sspv-salvation/#.YE01LJ1KiK8

So, this article/specific quote (from The Roman Catholic, SSPV, Fall 2003 issue) was apparently written by Fr Fenton, not Fr Cekada.  In addition, Fr Cekada left the SSPV in 1989, so he couldn't have possibly written this article for the SSPV in 2003.  I knew something was off about this accusation.

Granted, I am sure that some would still disagree with Fr Cekada's true position on BOD, but he NEVER said/wrote what has been attributed to him.  

It's time to set the record straight.