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Author Topic: Baptism of Desire Advocates: Is faith in the Sacrament required for BoD?  (Read 8920 times)

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Well, as I said, it's similar to the scenario where a penitent perhaps forgot to mention a mortal sin (not deliberately withholding).  There's a valid absolution, so the Sacrament was in fact confected.  So I think this is not quite the same thing as BoD.

The problem with your reply is, forgetting to mention a mortal sin, was not the purpose for providing General absolution.  Forgetting to mention a mortal sin, one needs to get back into the confessional, and explain to the priest they forgot to mention yada yada.   In the meantime, if the penitent truly forgot and dies before he/she got back into the confessional box, the Mercy of God, ( the forgotten sin would be forgiven by God) As I was taught back in the day, my Catholic school prior to VII.
It might help if you looked up Canons below yourself: 

 
What, then, is the purpose of general absolution, which involves the granting of absolution to a group without the priest having heard each person’s individual confession of sins? Canon 961.1 explains that there are two situations when it may properly be used.

The first (c. 961.1 n.1) obtains when danger of death threatens, and there is insufficient time for the available priest(s) to hear the confessions of everyone present. The most obvious situation in which this might happen is a time of war. Imagine, for example, that Sunday Mass is being celebrated in a parish church that is more or less crowded with parishioners. Suddenly, planes are heard overhead, and bσɱbs begin to fall. It is quite possible that the church may be hit and everyone inside killed in a matter of moments. At that point, the celebrant of the Mass would rightly move to give general absolution quickly to the entire congregation.

The second situation (c. 961.1 n.2) pertains to circuмstances which are less extreme. It involves a “grave necessity,” described as a large number of penitents and an insufficient number of available confessors, such that there is no time to hear everyone’s confession, and the faithful would be deprived of the grace of the sacrament for a lengthy period of time.


Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Well, as I said, it's similar to the scenario where a penitent perhaps forgot to mention a mortal sin (not deliberately withholding).  There's a valid absolution, so the Sacrament was in fact confected.  So I think this is not quite the same thing as BoD.
Myrna is trying to exemplify General Absolution, something the Church actually [rarely] does, as grounds to promote a BOD, which is something the Church actually cannot ever do, or even partake of.   


Pax quote
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Those that die before reception of the sacrament, we can (and must) say that 1) they were not sincere or 2) God worked a miracle to provide water baptism that we didn’t see or weren’t there.

Perhaps that is what He did, resulting in the dying soul being saved.   It doesn't matter how He, did it, as long as God saves the person who was GRACED WITH PERFECT LOVE, but in human eyes was not water Baptised but in God's Eyes He was.  The Mercy of God wins again as always. 
 

Offline Tradman

  • Supporter
ABSOLUTELY!
Ok we're getting somewhere. Baptism is necessary for salvation. God doesn't need to resort to some non baptism, a mythical "baptism by desire", because God is God, which means He can provide the real deal, Baptism, for otherwise impossible circuмstances, even if He has to perform a miracle where He decides to do it. This is not BOD, it's a miraculous Baptism, and water actually flows on them, or the person cannot be saved. 

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Quote
Perhaps that is what He did, resulting in the dying soul being saved.   It doesn't matter how He, did it, as long as God saves the person who was GRACED WITH PERFECT LOVE, but in human eyes was not water Baptised but in God's Eyes He was.
No, that's heresy.  Trent teaches infallibly that "true and natural water" is necessary for baptism.  Trent says that these words are "not a metaphor" but reality.
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Water matters because all sacraments are part spiritual, part natural.  Water + the Holy Ghost.
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You MUST explain salvation based on doctrine.  If you are going to create "what if" scenarios, then you create them involving water and miracles.  You don't ignore doctrine (i.e. water) and say it's a miracle.  God does not contradict Himself.