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Author Topic: Baptism of Desire Advocates: Is faith in the Sacrament required for BoD?  (Read 8970 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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How does the Tibetan pass on to his children the necessities for salvation when he doesn't even know that he is damned?
Why do many if you heretically think that these Hindus/pagans/etc are guiltless in their ignorance about the Church?   I’ve heard multiple conversion stories where Muslims wanted to know why Christians worshipped Christ, and He appeared to them physically or in a dream and answered their questions.  Then He sent them to a Christian for further instruction.  
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These miracles are happening in the Middle East as we speak!  In our times!  And these Muslims have google and books and tv to learn about Christ.  Yet...He still performs miracles for those that want the Truth, even if they could get the Truth naturally.  
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So, in days where technology didn’t exist, when ignorant natives were on islands, or in forests, or near remote mountains, and no living Christian was within thousands of miles, we wonder how God can reach these people? Really?
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Those that invent “BOD for the ignorant” or “rewarder God” heresy, have such a low amount of Faith in God, and His goodness, His mercy, His love of each one of us, that I question if they were ever really Catholic.  ...It’s borderline blasphemy.  

Offline Stubborn

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Those that invent “BOD for the ignorant” or “rewarder God” heresy, have such a low amount of Faith in God, and His goodness, His mercy, His love of each one of us, that I question if they were ever really Catholic.  ...It’s borderline blasphemy.
This is also what I believe - a huge lack of faith in the Providence of God.

Who can imagine Him, Who created light on the first day, but did not create the source of the light till the fourth day, is subject to unforeseen circuмstances - for our convenience.

It's one thing to toss around the idea of a BOD as being something possibly legitimate, but it's a whole nother thing to preach it as if it is a doctrine of the Church. I think the idea itself displeases God very much, not so much because of what it is, but because inherent in the idea is that Almighty God is handcuffed by "unforeseen circuмstances" from Providing that which He, in no uncertain terms, personally instituted as being necessary for salvation.


   


Offline Ladislaus

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This is also what I believe - a huge lack of faith in the Providence of God.

Who can imagine Him, Who created light on the first day, but did not create the source of the light till the fourth day, is subject to unforeseen circuмstances - for our convenience.

Absolutely.  There are many implied heretical premises in the motivations of BoDers.  I love how they attack "Feeneyites" because we would "constrain" God by the Sacraments, and yet they believe God to be constrained by "impossibility" and "unforeseen circuмstances" (as if anything can be unforeseen to God).  So, God must somehow bend in order to accommodate all these circuмstances that He somehow can't control.

Saying that God ALWAYS works salvation through the Sacrament of Baptism is not to constrain Him.  HE chose to do it that way, and revealed that to us.  Of course, He COULD do it some other way ... but He chose to do it this way.

And the other dark underbelly of BoD is this notion of:  "How could a merciful God do [such and such]?" ... the same sentiment that has caused so many to lose their faith when faced with some tragedies in life.  How could a merciful God allow someone who had "no chance" at Baptism to go to hell?  Well, how could a merciful God send anyone to hell at all; why doesn't He only create those Whom He foresees will go to heaven?  Where does that stop, eh?  Father Cekada at least honestly admitted his chief theological premise for BoD:  "I can't believe that a good and merciful God would allow ...."  Of course, that means salvation for infidels, and therefore a rejection of something that all Catholics taught and believed for 1500 years ... despite the assertion of Cekadism that universal consensus of theologians is infallible.  For 1500 years, it was infallibly true that explicit faith was necessary for salvation.  Then, in about the year 1500, it ceased to be true, and in fact now the OPPOSITE (for him) is infallibly true.  What utter garbage, Fr. Cekada ... and the contradiction come from a confirmation bias expressed in his emotional sentiment that God can't allow all those people to have been lost.  I trust that he has been enlightened now about his error.

Offline Ladislaus

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Of course, my previous post got a downthumb, from someone in denial about their true motivations for being a BoD zealot.

I think that's here I draw the line.  If someone happens to believe in BoD, and just mentions it in passing, but their emphasis is on the necessity of Baptism, then I'm fine with that.  But the "zealots" (that's a good term) usually have an agenda other than merely promoting "truth."  Lover of Heresy admitted his; it was due to bitterness over "almost" having become a "Feeneyite".

This is also what I believe - a huge lack of faith in the Providence of God.

Who can imagine Him, Who created light on the first day, but did not create the source of the light till the fourth day, is subject to unforeseen circuмstances - for our convenience.

It's one thing to toss around the idea of a BOD as being something possibly legitimate, but it's a whole nother thing to preach it as if it is a doctrine of the Church. I think the idea itself displeases God very much, not so much because of what it is, but because inherent in the idea is that Almighty God is handcuffed by "unforeseen circuмstances" from Providing that which He, in no uncertain terms, personally instituted as being necessary for salvation.


  
I agree with this.  It's like with my mother.  I pray daily that she get baptized before her death.  I believe that if she desires it, He will give that opportunity.  Most likely me.