Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Baptism of Desire Advocates: Is faith in the Sacrament required for BoD?  (Read 8965 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter

Quote
I'm guessing Lefebvre had in mind Hindus/Muslims/Prots who had never heard of Catholicism or, at most, had heard some grotesque mischaracterization of it.
Ok, but Trent, St Thomas, St Augustine and St Alphonsus all agree that BOD would not apply to these.  You have to 1) know what baptism is, and 2) properly desire it (and by extension, the whole catholic church).

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter


So no one knows ... what BoD is and how it works?  That's rather unusual for a defined dogma.

I'm sure that Baptism is right now saving some Hindu in Tibet, who will shortly be entering the Beatific Vision.


Offline JoeZ

  • Supporter
If the answer to the OP is no because the desire to be baptized is only implicit then consider how cruel God is. What recourse does the implicitly justified Tibetan have toward helping his fellows? How does the Tibetan pass on to his children the necessities for salvation when he doesn't even know that he is damned? What consoles him as he digs his dying infant's grave?

Questions like these pop up in this "vortex of confusion" created in this debate.

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
The use of the word “implicit” is grossly wrong.  When modernist heretics use the phrase “implicit faith”, they go on to describe a situation where an ignorant person doesn’t know something about the Church.  But something that is implicit is 100% understood (just not openly expressed).  This is why St Alphonsus’ use of implicit faith is orthodox.  He was speaking of a catechumen who was learning the faith but who just hadn’t formally asked to be baptized.  But such a one a) knew exactly what baptism was, b) knew what it meant to be a member of the Church, and c) by their actions in learning and asking questions of the Faith, was passively implying they wanted to join the Faith.  In other words, their actions were speaking in place of their words.  
.
That’s what implied means.  A “100% understanding” is part of the meaning of the word. 
.
What modernist heretics have done is apply V2’s “subsists in” theological error of Christianity to baptismal faith.  In the former, they have erroneously made belief in any type of Christianity salvific.  In the latter, they have erroneously made desire for any type of “god” or “truth” a baptism.  Both of these errors are necessary for the freemasonic one-world Church to be born. 

Offline Tradman

  • Supporter
If the answer to the OP is no because the desire to be baptized is only implicit then consider how cruel God is. What recourse does the implicitly justified Tibetan have toward helping his fellows? How does the Tibetan pass on to his children the necessities for salvation when he doesn't even know that he is damned? What consoles him as he digs his dying infant's grave?

Questions like these pop up in this "vortex of confusion" created in this debate.
Why would you think that God is mean if He doesn't wait the amount of time you think He needs to wait for someone?  Or do you think God has to break his own rules in order to save people?  Circuмstances cannot possibly impede God from getting someone true baptism if they want it. It certainly isn't harder for God to provide baptism than baptism of desire.  If a person wants baptism and tries to get there, they get it.  If someone dies without it, God knew what He was doing and no one can say He is unmerciful.