Author Topic: Baptism of Desire.. (Read 10958 times)

LordPhan · « **Reply #60 on:** August 21, 2011, 10:20:25 AM »

Ordinary Law vs Extraordinary Law

Stubborn · « **Reply #61 on:** August 21, 2011, 10:26:07 AM »

Quote from: Daegus

But baptism of desire is a baptism, or else it would not be called Baptism of desire, now would it? That's the real issue here. That is the problem. Whether or not it's a sacrament isn't really even my main concern. My main concern is: if it is a baptism like the name implies, then should water not be necessary for it? The council of Trent says that water is necessary for baptism. If BoD is not baptism, then, quite frankly, I just don't know what the hell it is.

There are many different theological opinions what BOD is. People who believe in a BOD actually do not know what it is either - but they all agree that it rewards salvation to those unbaptized.

Quite profound hey?

Quote from: Daegus

No one is saying that God is bound by His own sacraments. I am not saying God is bound by His sacraments. Asserting otherwise is a vicious lie against me. What I am really having trouble with is the idea that God would contradict Himself in saying that whoever is not born of water and the Holy Ghost cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I'm having trouble believing God would contradict the teachings of His Church or allow His Church to contradict Him and say that someone can be baptised by desire even after saying that water is necessary for baptism and having the Church define that water is a necessity of baptism.

You are not asking for anything unreasonable whatsoever and you are 100% correct that God is not bound by His Sacraments. It is we who are bound, not Him. We are all singularly of more value to God than we can ever know in this life. We know that each soul is worth more to God than the entire world with everything in it. He would not bind us to a law we could not observe no matter the theoretical circuмstance.

The old axiom: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions" conflicts entirely with a BOD.

MyrnaM · « **Reply #62 on:** August 21, 2011, 10:56:29 AM »

Quote

ut baptism of desire is a baptism, or else it would not be called Baptism of desire, now would it?

Who here said it wasn't a baptism? Or is that just your way to sound like you know what you are talking about?

SJB · « **Reply #63 on:** August 21, 2011, 11:17:12 AM »

Quote from: Daegus

But baptism of desire is a baptism, or else it would not be called Baptism of desire, now would it?

It's been explained, you just don't want to accept it. BOD is not a Sacrament.

Daegus · « **Reply #64 on:** August 21, 2011, 11:18:31 AM »

Quote from: MyrnaM

Quote
ut baptism of desire is a baptism, or else it would not be called Baptism of desire, now would it?

Who here said it wasn't a baptism? Or is that just your way to sound like you know what you are talking about?

I find it funny how you appear to be getting agitated over this discussion. If you can't handle this discussion you're free to not post. Do you always get upset when people don't agree with you?

Anyways...

Now, to answer your question, no one said it wasn't a baptism. I was making the point that it is (or at least, you are, necessarily, saying that it is) a baptism by asking that question. If BoD is really a baptism, and natural water is necessary for baptism, how is baptism of desire supposed to work? Trent does say that natural water is necessary for baptism. You can get as irritated as you want, but I'm not leaving this alone until I get answers that actually make sense.