Author Topic: Baptism of Blood IS REAL!!!!!! (Read 23690 times)

Telesphorus · « **Reply #5 on:** July 17, 2009, 10:57:18 AM »

Quote from: Vladimir

The Holy Infants descended to the Limbo of the Fathers most likely, along with all the other Old Testament prophets and saints. They ascended into Heaven when Christ went there to free them. and unity of the Catholic Church[/b].

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01055a.htm

Stating that a martyred catechumen is not saved is really temerarious and can only be made a theological battle-cry by someone infected with a severe case of rigorism.

Consider the consequences of being wrong about this Feeneyite position. If one is wrong about it, one is not only holding a heretical opinion, but they are causing grave doubts in the minds of many as to the justice of God. They are saying people are outside the Church when it is they themselves who are putting themselves outside the Church.

http://www.sspx.org/miscellaneous/fr_feeney_catholic_doctrine.htm

Vladimir · « **Reply #6 on:** July 17, 2009, 11:04:55 AM »

I am not saying that. I am saying however, that it is a moral certainty that those who do not abide within the Church cannot be saved - in other words, all those not inside the Church will be condemned to Hell. From what I can tell, catechumens are not in the Church -- I base this on the fact that the Holy Mass is divided into the Mass of the Catechumens and the Mass of the Faithful. If catechumens were inside the Church, they would be able to stay for the Mass of the Faithful, but instead, they are dismissed after the sermon (if there is one). In other words, catechumens are not inside the Church, but they are knocking on Her door.

I'm not making any battle cries. I'm rather timid and don't like to say harsh things like "Catechumens go to Hell" unless I need to.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #7 on:** July 17, 2009, 11:17:28 AM »

Quote from: Vladimir

I am not saying that. I am saying however, that it is a moral certainty that those who do not abide within the Church cannot be saved - in other words, all those not inside the Church will be condemned to Hell. From what I can tell, catechumens are not in the Church -- I base this on the fact that the Holy Mass is divided into the Mass of the Catechumens and the Mass of the Faithful.

Who said this designation proves that a catechumenate martyred for the Faith does not have a baptism of blood and is saved? You are interpreting the Council docuмent erroneously.

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I'm not making any battle cries. I'm rather timid and don't like to say harsh things like "Catechumens go to Hell" unless I need to.

Well, you certainly don't need to. Certainly you shouldn't be giving aid and comfort to the Feeneyites.

Vladimir · « **Reply #8 on:** July 17, 2009, 11:22:35 AM »

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Who said this designation proves that a catechumenate martyred for the Faith does not have a baptism of blood and is saved? You are interpreting the Council docuмent erroneously.

Because if a catechumen is not among the Faithful then he is not in the Church right? How can there be a baptism of blood? Why did Our Lord not say that then? and not that we need baptism of water and the Holy Ghost in order to enter Heaven?

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Well, you certainly don't need to. Certainly you shouldn't be giving aid and comfort to the Feeneyites.

I honestly have no clue who Fr. Feeney is, or what constitutes a "feenyite" (I've been exposed to Traditional Catholicism for only a few months). I just take "extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" literally.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #9 on:** July 17, 2009, 11:29:11 AM »

Quote from: Vladimir

Because if a catechumen is not among the Faithful then he is not in the Church right?

He is if he's martyred.

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How can there be a baptism of blood?

God can save such a person.

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Why did Our Lord not say that then? and not that we need baptism of water and the Holy Ghost in order to enter Heaven?

If someone refuses baptism they can't be saved. But you cannot say that someone with the intention to be baptized cannot be saved.

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I honestly have no clue who Fr. Feeney is, or what constitutes a "feenyite" (I've been exposed to Traditional Catholicism for only a few months). I just take "extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" literally.

You don't know who Fr. Feeney is? He was condemned by the Holy Office.

I recommend you read that link I posted above.