Author Topic: Baptism of blood for infants. (Read 22151 times)

Caminus · « **Reply #25 on:** March 17, 2010, 03:28:40 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Your understanding of Christ's descent into hell is deeply flawed.

"Liberate the captives" from what? Why couldn't they just enter right away if the fruits of Our Lord's Passion had been applied to them antecedently? Why are they held "captive" if they're justified and in a state of grace? If the fruits of Our Lord's Passion had been applied to them antecedently, then they have by definition already liberated. Your opinion is absurd for holding that they're somehow being held captive for no particular reason.

Rather than attempting to point out the alleged absurdity of an act of divine positive law, maybe you should attempt to explain the even greater absurdity regarding how a soul that is not in a state of grace does not immediately, upon death, descend into hell, properly so-called, to suffer eternal punishment.

Matthew · « **Reply #26 on:** March 17, 2010, 03:32:16 PM »

You forget that many times something is such a "given" it won't be mentioned explicitly.

Such as someone dying for the Faith going to heaven -- many writers wouldn't waste their ink defending something so obvious.

That is why we Catholics need a living, teaching magisterium, to explain away these written difficulties in Scripture, the Fathers, writings of the Saints, etc. -- to explain their proper meaning.

The protestant way -- private interpretation -- doesn't work. It leads to sects, and sects of sects because each man has his own opinion that he is attached to.

Matthew

Ladislaus · « **Reply #27 on:** March 17, 2010, 03:49:12 PM »

Quote from: Vladimir

Reference to John Paul II is completely irrelevant.

Not entirely, my point having been that veneration by some of the faithful is not tantamount to a canonization.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #28 on:** March 17, 2010, 03:54:01 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

This is devastating to the possibility of infant baptism of blood, because Florence singles out the sacrament of baptism, i.e. water baptism. There is no decree saying that adults must receive the sacrament of baptism, which is the loophole for BoD believers like myself. But here, for infants, the sacrament itself is deemed crucial.

That was my point to Caminus precisely, which he summarily dismissed, that since infants have not reached the age of reason, BoB would have to work ex opere operato, i.e. would have to be a sacrament, which it's not. Only adults can form the dispositions required for Baptism and, therefore, receive BoD and BoB (even IF you believe in these).

Ladislaus · « **Reply #29 on:** March 17, 2010, 04:04:01 PM »

Quote from: Caminus

Quote from: Ladislaus
Your understanding of Christ's descent into hell is deeply flawed.

"Liberate the captives" from what? Why couldn't they just enter right away if the fruits of Our Lord's Passion had been applied to them antecedently? Why are they held "captive" if they're justified and in a state of grace? If the fruits of Our Lord's Passion had been applied to them antecedently, then they have by definition already liberated. Your opinion is absurd for holding that they're somehow being held captive for no particular reason.

Because God in His Infinite Mercy created something called the Limbo of the Fathers for precisely this reason, to allow the just from the old dispensation to wait for justification by Our Lord. As I've pointed, out, that's WHY this Limbo of the Fathers exists at all. Otherwise, per your explanation regarding antecedent application to all the just in the old dispensation, it would be entirely useless.