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Author Topic: Approaching Sede Priests who Accept BOD for Non-Catechumens  (Read 2273 times)

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Offline blue12

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Approaching Sede Priests who Accept BOD for Non-Catechumens
« on: July 08, 2023, 12:29:35 AM »
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    •     I have recently joined CI and wanted to ask sedevacantists who reject BOB/BOD what they think of approaching sedevacantist priests for sacraments who hold the BOD position that Christ rejecting jews can be saved (Invisible ignorance could save Jews who reject Christ) and that those who don't believe in Jesus cooperating with the grace given to them could be saved and united to the church.
        I watched a Dimond video where he asked Benedict Hughes this question and this is what he said. I asked a priest of the CMRI whether jews who reject Christ could be saved and he said it depends on whether they have supernatural faith and supernatural charity and that if they are invincibly ignorant they will not be held culpable. 
        What do you make of these statements and the following quotes?
    Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (#9), June 29, 1896
    “The practice of the Church has always been the same, as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were wont to hold as outside Catholic communion, and alien to the Church, whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of doctrine proposed by her authoritative Magisterium. Epiphanius, Augustine, Theodoret, drew up a long list of the heresies of their times. St. Augustine notes that other heresies may spring up, to a single one of which, should any one give his assent, he is by the very fact cut off from Catholic unity. "No one who merely disbelieves in all (these heresies) can for that reason regard himself as a Catholic or call himself one. For there may be or may arise some other heresies, which are not set out in this work of ours, and, if any one holds to one single one of these he is not a Catholic" (S. Augustinus, De Haeresibus, n. 88).”

    “A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid: Knowing that he, that is such an one, is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment.” (Titus 3:10-11)

    (I’ve read other quotes and could add more but I think the reader gets the point).

    So what do you make of this? What are the arguments for approaching them with this knowledge?

    Note: this is not about sedevacantist priests who believe in BOB/BOD for catechumens.
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    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: Approaching Sede Priests who Accept BOD for Non-Catechumens
    « Reply #1 on: July 08, 2023, 12:48:21 AM »
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    • MHFM has a very detalied page on Sacraments from Heretics. They debunk the notion that you can't receive the sacraments from undeclared heretics.

    They nevertheless recommend staying home in most cases.
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Approaching Sede Priests who Accept BOD for Non-Catechumens
    « Reply #2 on: July 08, 2023, 01:14:13 AM »
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    • Most sede priests do not give the sacraments to people who hold your beliefs anyway, so the question is moot. :trollface:
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    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Approaching Sede Priests who Accept BOD for Non-Catechumens
    « Reply #3 on: July 08, 2023, 02:42:36 AM »
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    • Quote from: blue12 on July 08, 2023, 12:29:35 AM
        I have recently joined CI and wanted to ask sedevacantists who reject BOB/BOD what they think of approaching sedevacantist priests for sacraments who hold the BOD position that Christ rejecting jews can be saved (Invisible ignorance could save Jews who reject Christ) and that those who don't believe in Jesus cooperating with the grace given to them could be saved and united to the church.
        I watched a Dimond video where he asked Benedict Hughes this question and this is what he said. I asked a priest of the CMRI whether jews who reject Christ could be saved and he said it depends on whether they have supernatural faith and supernatural charity and that if they are invincibly ignorant they will not be held culpable. 
        What do you make of these statements and the following quotes?
    Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (#9), June 29, 1896
    “The practice of the Church has always been the same, as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were wont to hold as outside Catholic communion, and alien to the Church, whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of doctrine proposed by her authoritative Magisterium. Epiphanius, Augustine, Theodoret, drew up a long list of the heresies of their times. St. Augustine notes that other heresies may spring up, to a single one of which, should any one give his assent, he is by the very fact cut off from Catholic unity. "No one who merely disbelieves in all (these heresies) can for that reason regard himself as a Catholic or call himself one. For there may be or may arise some other heresies, which are not set out in this work of ours, and, if any one holds to one single one of these he is not a Catholic" (S. Augustinus, De Haeresibus, n. 88).”

    “A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid: Knowing that he, that is such an one, is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment.” (Titus 3:10-11)

    (I’ve read other quotes and could add more but I think the reader gets the point).

    So what do you make of this? What are the arguments for approaching them with this knowledge?

    Note: this is not about sedevacantist priests who believe in BOB/BOD for catechumens.
    There is a different between material and formal heretics.

    I go to an sspx chapel because their priests at that particular location are traditionally ordained. It should be fine to receive Sacraments from these priests even if they believe in BoB/BoD/II because during the Anglican persecutions the faithful were allowed to receive sacraments from apostate Catholic priests who became Anglican.
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    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Approaching Sede Priests who Accept BOD for Non-Catechumens
    « Reply #4 on: July 08, 2023, 02:43:17 AM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on July 08, 2023, 01:14:13 AM
    Most sede priests do not give the sacraments to people who hold your beliefs anyway, so the question is moot. :trollface:
    Yeah this is the unfortunate case.
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