Author Topic: AMONG THE RUIN & BOD  (Read 1634 times)

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Offline roscoe

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AMONG THE RUIN & BOD
« on: September 21, 2017, 08:44:36 PM »
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  • Not being a theologian, i have stayed away from the BOD controversy but there is something in Among The Ruins by P Williams

    He says that St Thomas did admit the possibility of BOD but apparently only for someone who lived BC..  :chef:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: AMONG THE RUIN & BOD
    « Reply #1 on: September 22, 2017, 05:22:30 AM »
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  • "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    As we know, Trent infallibly judged that the sacrament of baptism is necessary for salvation, that whoever says the sacrament is optional, like Lover of Liberalism constantly does, is anathema.

    Unlike Lover of Liberalism, the greatest theologian and Doctor, St. Thomas, by his own words, submits to this judgement.
    I say that it is licit to resist the Roman Pontiff by not doing what he orders and by impeding the execution of his will; it is not licit, however, to judge, punish or depose him, since these are acts proper to a superior." St. Robert Bellarmine


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: AMONG THE RUIN & BOD
    « Reply #2 on: September 22, 2017, 08:10:12 AM »
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  • "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Yes, it's almost as if St. Thomas, by some divine inspiration, suspected that he had misfired on this point.

    St. Augustine later regretted his theorizing / speculation about BoD and forcefully retracted it.

    But God has allowed this theological mistake to become widespread, because without this there would never have been a Vatican II and a test of faith that God ordained for these times in the Church.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: AMONG THE RUIN & BOD
    « Reply #3 on: September 22, 2017, 08:46:33 AM »
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  • Yes, it's almost as if St. Thomas, by some divine inspiration, suspected that he had misfired on this point.

    St. Augustine later regretted his theorizing / speculation about BoD and forcefully retracted it.

    But God has allowed this theological mistake to become widespread, because without this there would never have been a Vatican II and a test of faith that God ordained for these times in the Church.
    Exactly.

    By him saying: "if I ever expressed myself erroneously on this sacrament...." in and of itself, testifies with certainty that a BOD never was a teaching of the Church,  and 2) he was only speculating about a BOD.

    The crazy thing is, I copied this from LoL's signature - just goes to show how heresy blinds a person.
    I say that it is licit to resist the Roman Pontiff by not doing what he orders and by impeding the execution of his will; it is not licit, however, to judge, punish or depose him, since these are acts proper to a superior." St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: AMONG THE RUIN & BOD
    « Reply #4 on: September 22, 2017, 01:53:16 PM »
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  • The reason i posted this seems to have gone over everyone's head.

    Apparently St Thomas only believed in the possibility of BoD for someone who lived BEFORE THE TIME OF JESUS...

    Therefore anyone attempting to cite the Doctor as evidence for BoD existing AD has a nothingburger....

    So far LOT(?) has not responded....

    :chef:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: AMONG THE RUIN & BOD
    « Reply #5 on: September 22, 2017, 02:19:51 PM »
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  • The reason i posted this seems to have gone over everyone's head.

    Apparently St Thomas only believed in the possibility of BoD for someone who lived BEFORE THE TIME OF JESUS...

    Therefore anyone attempting to cite the Doctor as evidence for BoD existing AD has a nothingburger....

    So far LOT(?) has not responded....

    :chef:
    I understood - but the point that a BOD is not a teaching of the Church and that St. Thomas was only speculating needed to be addressed for the heretic LoL.

    Don't expect lol to respond - he has been Fentonized to the maximum.

    CANON V.-If any one saith, that baptism is optional, that is, not necessary unto salvation; let him be anathema.
    I say that it is licit to resist the Roman Pontiff by not doing what he orders and by impeding the execution of his will; it is not licit, however, to judge, punish or depose him, since these are acts proper to a superior." St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: AMONG THE RUIN & BOD
    « Reply #6 on: September 22, 2017, 03:14:06 PM »
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  • Yes, that would be great.
    Thirded, otherwise "sayin' stuff is really neat."
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Amakusa

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    Re: AMONG THE RUIN & BOD
    « Reply #7 on: September 22, 2017, 03:15:53 PM »
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  • The Council of Trent, several catechisms, theological encyclopedias, and books of dogmatic theology, clearly state that one can get saved through the baptism of water, the baptism of blood or the baptism of desire. It is also a truth of natural reason, and you can additionally find it in the most credible private revelations, such as that of Venerable Anne-Catherine Emmerich or Sister of the Nativity. Period.

    The Feeneyite heresy is flourishing in the USA because your cursed country is the motherland of heresies. Here in France, I know only one priest supporting that heresy, and he has been forced to sell his beautiful chapel (a former monastery!) when he fell in heresy, because nearly all his faithful left. France is the eldest daughter of the Church, the center of Catholic tradition, and the faithful are not protestant heretics following their own private opinions.
    The baptism of desire and the baptism of blood are dogmas of faith and truths of natural reason: see the article of the New Advent Encyclopedia on baptism, and Catholic Essentials. Those who deny the baptism of desire, the baptism of blood,


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: AMONG THE RUIN & BOD
    « Reply #8 on: September 22, 2017, 03:33:04 PM »
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  • How is baptism (sacramental or otherwise) a truth of natural reason?

    How about the Trinity then?

    Don't answer that. It's heresy.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: AMONG THE RUIN & BOD
    « Reply #9 on: September 22, 2017, 03:34:05 PM »
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  • The Council of Trent, several catechisms, theological encyclopedias, and books of dogmatic theology, clearly state that one can get saved through the baptism of water, the baptism of blood or the baptism of desire. It is also a truth of natural reason, and you can additionally find it in the most credible private revelations, such as that of Venerable Anne-Catherine Emmerich or Sister of the Nativity. Period.

    The Feeneyite heresy is flourishing in the USA because your cursed country is the motherland of heresies. Here in France, I know only one priest supporting that heresy, and he has been forced to sell his beautiful chapel (a former monastery!) when he fell in heresy, because nearly all his faithful left. France is the eldest daughter of the Church, the center of Catholic tradition, and the faithful are not protestant heretics following their own private opinions.
    There is No Such thing as a 'Feeneyite'....
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: AMONG THE RUIN & BOD
    « Reply #10 on: September 22, 2017, 03:35:52 PM »
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  • Thirded, otherwise "sayin' stuff is really neat."
    i have already given the source as the new book by Dr Paul Williams--- Among The Ruins.
    the specific page # is 86.....
    :cheers:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: AMONG THE RUIN & BOD
    « Reply #11 on: September 22, 2017, 03:40:45 PM »
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  • i have already given the source as the new book by Dr Paul Williams--- Among The Ruins.
    the specific page # is 86.....
    :cheers:
    So, let me get this straight; you start a topic of discussion, and you won't even do an excerpt and cite?

    What, we have to buy a book to talk to you? If you read it on the internet somewhere, then is it really such an ordeal to copy the url and the paste it here?

    Or, hey here's a thought, if the Doc did his cites adequately, then why not get it straight from the Ox's mouth?

    What, he didn't actually give a citation? Then "Gratuitiously offered", and I'd like to know where he got that "Dr." from.

    Regardless, "fix it", or no  thanks.
    :cheers:
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: AMONG THE RUIN & BOD
    « Reply #12 on: September 22, 2017, 04:18:38 PM »
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  • Williams source is the Summa-- part 3, book 1-- question 67, vol 17

    The above citation is from note 7, Chap 6 of Among The Ruins....

    :ready-to-eat:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: AMONG THE RUIN & BOD
    « Reply #13 on: September 22, 2017, 04:23:05 PM »
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  • Williams source is the Summa-- part 3, book 1-- question 67, vol 17

    The above citation is from note 7, Chap 6 of Among The Ruins....

    :ready-to-eat:
    And did you read the actual source? Also, do you mean treatise 1?
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: AMONG THE RUIN & BOD
    « Reply #14 on: September 22, 2017, 04:30:51 PM »
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  • Have you????

    I posted the source as written in the notes of Among.

    Take it or leave it
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

     

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