Author Topic: All the NOers seem to be semi-pelagians... (Read 18640 times)

Augustinian · « **Reply #120 on:** January 10, 2012, 03:42:45 AM »

Quote from: Roman Catholic

Is that SAINT Thomas and SAINT Bonaventure whom you are attacking and accusing of babbling?

"That celestial bodies are moved by an internal principle, which is soul; and that they are moved by a soul and by an appetitive power just as an animal; for just as an animal is moved by desire, so is the sky."

Sounds like babbling to me.

Quote from: Roman Catholic

Is "Pius X" SAINT Pius X?

Not anymore than Pope Honorius is Saint Honorius.

Augustinian · « **Reply #121 on:** January 10, 2012, 03:46:05 AM »

Quote from: Roman Catholic

Do you believe in the validity and infallibility of the canonisations, of St. Thomas Aquinas, St Bonaventure, St Albert The Great, and St Pius X?

Do you believe that Holy Church legitimately and correctly bestowed the title Doctor (of the Church) on St Thomas Aquinas and St Albert the Great?

I see you're the inquisitor now. Funny how that works. I'm not allowed to inquire about you, but you are allowed to inquire about me. I have no problem answering your questions, unlike you. I've answered all your questions so far, while you've ignored my main one. I'll make you a deal. I'll answer any questions you want, including the ones you just asked here, but on the condition that you first answer my main question which you've so far refused to answer.

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #122 on:** January 10, 2012, 03:49:29 AM »

Quote from: Augustinian

What you're basically saying is that no one has a right to ask you whether or not you believe in heresies which you appear to be defending. Your refusal to answer is more than enough to condemn you, just like Jan Hus. If you have nothing to hide, then you wouldn't have any problem admitting your belief.

Quote from:

No I am saying YOU have no right.

I do not appear to be defending any heresies. I am defending some Saints.

My refusal to answer to YOU is more than enough to condemn me?

Who condemened Jus - YOU or the Church?

Please show us the Catholic Church's condemnations of St. Thomas Aquinas, St Bonaventure, St Albert The Great, and St Pius X.

Augustinian · « **Reply #123 on:** January 10, 2012, 04:07:56 AM »

Quote from: Roman Catholic

No I am saying YOU have no right.

Every Catholic has a right to ask another would-be Catholic what they believe.

Quote from: Roman Catholic

I do not appear to be defending any heresies. I am defending some Saints.

You refuse to condemn the Pelagian doctrines

Quote from: Roman Catholic

My refusal to answer to YOU is more than enough to condemn me?

Your refusal to answer anyone on these matters is more than enough to condemn you in the eyes of God. Just like a coward who would refuse to profess his Christian faith in the face of martyrdom by Pagan Romans. You are even more pathetic though since no one here is going to be inflicting physical harm on you, or deriding you in person as a faithless coward when you go to church on Sunday.

Quote from: Roman Catholic

Who condemened Jus - YOU or the Church?

Hus condemned himself. The Church merely pointed out the fact.

Quote from: Roman Catholic

Please show us the Catholic Church's condemnations of St. Thomas Aquinas, St Bonaventure, St Albert The Great, and St Pius X.

Condemnation of 1277: http://www.fordham.edu/gsas/phil/klima/Blackwell-proofs/MP_C22.pdf

Their actions, words, and inactions condemn them. The Church doesn't need to, although it should.

Also...

By what RIGHT do you reject Vatican II? By what AUTHORITY do you reject nearly 3,000 bishops? Who ARE YOU to deny John Paul II is "Blessed" and in heaven?

If you're a Sedevacantist, or even if you're not, you have some nerve bringing up any argument about "authority" and "rights". The only people who can use that argument logically are blind VII followers of the Novus Ordo church.

Now how about answering my main question, for once?

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #124 on:** January 10, 2012, 04:08:08 AM »

Quote from: Augustinian

Quote from: Roman Catholic

Do you believe in the validity and infallibility of the canonisations, of St. Thomas Aquinas, St Bonaventure, St Albert The Great, and St Pius X?

Do you believe that Holy Church legitimately and correctly bestowed the title Doctor (of the Church) on St Thomas Aquinas and St Albert the Great?

I see you're the inquisitor now. Funny how that works. I'm not allowed to inquire about you, but you are allowed to inquire about me. I have no problem answering your questions, unlike you. I've answered all your questions so far, while you've ignored my main one. I'll make you a deal. I'll answer any questions you want, including the ones you just asked here, but on the condition that you first answer my main question which you've so far refused to answer.

Don't you get it? I have no faith in YOU. YOU have no authority to DEMAND that I recite or answer according your formula on the pretext that YOU will decide if I am in heresy based on YOUR Q and A session.

YOU have no authority to demand that I recite any formula even an approved creed, let alone your home-made declaration that you think is designed to hunt out heretics.

I will not play your game, or according the rules YOU try to make up.

YOU and YOUR BUDDY are the ones who are suspect of heresy and schism.

I can honestly recite any approved Creed. It is enough for the Church why not enough for you?

We could spend our entire lives here - you and me asking each other to recite different formulae, make home-made professions of Faith, and demanding condemnation of various heresies.

How do I know that YOU don't hold some heresies? You despise people that The Church has declared to be Saints and Doctors of the Church

You are suspect.

Unlike your type that I have seen before, I also believe that Vatican 1 was a legitimate Council of the Church. I believe in papal infallibility too. I wonder if you do.

Augustinian · « **Reply #125 on:** January 10, 2012, 04:10:06 AM »

I do believe in papal infallibility. You don't. You reject the infallible teachings of the Church in favor of fallible (and heretical) teachings. Your other hypocritical objections were already answered.

Augustinian · « **Reply #126 on:** January 10, 2012, 04:12:13 AM »

You show absolute horror in the face of criticism of Scholastic theologians. But you show no horror for heresy and Pelagianism. That's because you don't care about the Catholic faith.

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #127 on:** January 10, 2012, 04:12:21 AM »

Quote from: Augustinian

Your refusal to answer anyone on these matters is more than enough to condemn you in the eyes of God.

Gus,

I have not refused to answer anyone. I refused to answer YOU.

Now YOU dare to have the audacity to speak for God. It is shameful.

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #128 on:** January 10, 2012, 04:14:37 AM »

Quote from: Augustinian

...you don't care about the Catholic faith.

:rolleyes:

As if YOU would know, let alone be in any postion to declare.

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #129 on:** January 10, 2012, 04:19:39 AM »

Quote from: Augustinian

Condemnation of 1277: http://www.fordham.edu/gsas/phil/klima/Blackwell-proofs/MP_C22.pdf

What is the title of this work and who authored it and when?

Do you have any docuмents from The Church condemning Her Saints?

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #130 on:** January 10, 2012, 04:21:53 AM »

Quote from: Augustinian

Quote from: Roman Catholic

No I am saying YOU have no right.

Every Catholic has a right to ask another would-be Catholic what they believe.

Problem: I am not a would-be Catholic. I am a Roman Catholic.

Problem: I do not know if you are a Roman Catholic.

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #131 on:** January 10, 2012, 04:30:22 AM »

Roman Catholic said:

Please show us the Catholic Church's condemnations of St. Thomas Aquinas, St Bonaventure, St Albert The Great, and St Pius X.

Augustinian said:

Their actions, words, and inactions condemn them. The Church doesn't need to, although it should.

Now you condemn SAINTS that The Church praises and declared to be saints.

Then you have the boldness to declare the church was wrong and to declare what the Church should you.

Your belief in the Church is warped and heretical.

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #132 on:** January 10, 2012, 04:37:43 AM »

Correction to format:

Quote from: Roman Catholic

Roman Catholic said:

Please show us the Catholic Church's condemnations of St. Thomas Aquinas, St Bonaventure, St Albert The Great, and St Pius X.

Augustinian said:

Their actions, words, and inactions condemn them. The Church doesn't need to, although it should.

Roman Catholic says:

Now you condemn SAINTS that The Church praises and declared to be saints.

Then you have the boldness to declare the church was wrong and to declare what the Church should you.

Your belief in the Church is warped and heretical.

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #133 on:** January 10, 2012, 04:46:56 AM »

Quote from: Augustinian

I do believe in papal infallibility....

I mentioned Vatican 1.

I see you dropped any reference to Vatican 1. :scratchchin:

Augustinian · « **Reply #134 on:** January 10, 2012, 04:57:10 AM »

Quote from: Roman Catholic

Quote from: Augustinian
I do believe in papal infallibility....

I mentioned Vatican 1.

I see you dropped any reference to Vatican 1. :scratchchin:

:rolleyes:

Unlike you, I believe in the infallible teachings of the Church, including the first Vatican Council.

You are a hypocrite. You reject the Novus Ordo church (rightfully so - but according to your logic - by what "right" and "authority"?). You reject Joseph Ratzinger (rightfully so - but according to your own logic - by what right and authority? Where has the Church condemned him?). You ask a million inquisitive questions and expect answers, yet deny me the same right, and refuse to answer a simple question about your faith because you know you hold to Pelagian heresies.