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Author Topic: Against the Heresy of Feeneyism  (Read 1301 times)

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Offline Gray2023

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Re: Against the Heresy of Feeneyism
« Reply #45 on: Yesterday at 04:38:31 PM »
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  • The fruits are not to be seen/measured according to all people, because the sspx (just like the catholic church) is made up of flawed, sinful individuals.  The fruits are to be seen in exemplary individuals, but most importantly, in the Truth/doctrine.  That is, that priests/families are willing to sacrifice x, y and z to protect, (attempt to) build Tradition, build schools, build chapels/convents, in hopes that Tradition will survive.  The struggle/desire/work is proof that Tradition is worth keeping.

    In other words, there was a story of a protestant who was serious about catholicism.  He visited Rome in the mid 1800s, admist all sorts of Vatican scandals, etc.  He returned and shocked his friends by his decision to convert.  He said, "If the Catholic Church can survive all of the turmoil, scandals, and lukewarm individuals I met in Rome, then surely it only exists because God is keeping it going.  Therefore, it must be of Divine origin."
    Thanks for that glimmer of hope.

    I guess the time period you exist in always feels worse than the time period others exist in.  I can honestly say though, I wouldn't want to see my loved ones being eaten by animals.
    Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine

    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Against the Heresy of Feeneyism
    « Reply #46 on: Yesterday at 04:46:00 PM »
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  • Yeah, and that catechism is a DIRECT contradiction of Trent, which tells us that NO ONE can have supernatural virtues of faith, hope or love BEFORE baptism.  It is heresy to say that a person can desire God in the manner that God deserves to be desired (i.e. a perfect act of love) unless God gives this person the grace to do so.  And this grace (i.e. perfect love of God) is called the supernatural virtue of charity, which can only be gotten through baptism.

    One can have imperfect Faith before Baptism.  One can have imperfect love of God before baptism.  NO ONE can have supernatural/perfect Faith or Love UNTIL Baptism.  Because baptism is the FIRST TIME one receives the 3 theological virtues - faith, hope and charity. 

    You cannot "will yourself" to heaven.  This catechism is just like the "faith alone saves" protestant heresy, except it is called "love alone saves".
    You don't know what you're talking about. 
    When did that supernatural love of God begin?  It wasn't needed until Christ died?  Or was it just before Christ's death? Was Abraham's love of God only natural? Was David's love of God only natural?  Shouldn't a statement like that be True always?  I think I am missing something.  Faith, Hope, and Charity only existed in the times after Christ?  :confused:
    Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine


    Offline songbird

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    Re: Against the Heresy of Feeneyism
    « Reply #47 on: Yesterday at 04:59:25 PM »
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  • I read the Boston Heresy Case, Fr. Feeney's.  Fr. Feeney defended the Faith!  His adversaries were of the Church.  Very sad but very true.  Fr. Feeney defended the family, when youth were leaving the Faith, and Parent's morned.  Fr. Feeney saw that EENS was being attacked and watered down.

    He Defended the Faith! He defended God's family.  Fr. Feeney obeyed God.  Thank God that he woke us up to the destruction of the Church. than you WorldsAway for your post.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Against the Heresy of Feeneyism
    « Reply #48 on: Yesterday at 05:11:15 PM »
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  • When did that supernatural love of God begin?  It wasn't needed until Christ died?  Or was it just before Christ's death? Was Abraham's love of God only natural? Was David's love of God only natural?  Shouldn't a statement like that be True always?  I think I am missing something.  Faith, Hope, and Charity only existed in the times after Christ?  :confused:
    Supernatural love of God cannot be attained by any person.  It’s a gift of God; it’s a grace.  It exists when GOD GIVES IT TO US, at baptism.  

    I don’t know if the Old Law provided the supernatural virtue of charity.  That’s besides the point.  

    Under the new law, it is INFALLIBLY true that no one attains this virtue except through baptism.  

    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Against the Heresy of Feeneyism
    « Reply #49 on: Yesterday at 08:44:19 PM »
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  • If Traditional Catholics all believed in EENS, none of us would have any doubt but that that Vatican II was heretical and that the Conciliar papal claimants have been Anti-Popes.  There would be no more needing to stretch and read into this ambiguous statement or that ambiguous statement by one or another of the Anti-Popes.  It would be crystal clear to the eyes of faith, and the only reason everyone doesn't see it is due to weak faith.
    This is a refreshing truth.

    Like a drink of clean, pure water...

    But, it is neither convenient or palatable for most trads (of whatever stripe/camp).

    Many prefer the brackish waters of indifference. 

    "I have my chapel, bishop, priest, Sacraments, community, etc., what does it matter if I think this or that - it is only my opinion and that ain't worth much."

    Either way, don't let it keep you down. 







    Offline Tarmac Turkey

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    Re: Against the Heresy of Feeneyism
    « Reply #50 on: Yesterday at 10:47:44 PM »
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  • Feeneyism
    I. St. Benedict Center
    Origin of St. Benedict Center – Contrary to popular opinion, St. Benedict Center
    (SBC) was not started by Fr. Feeney but by Catherine Goddard Clarke and two laymen
    in 1940. It was to be a place where Catholic university students could come to learn
    about and be bolstered in the Faith. Fr. Feeney was introduced to the place in 1942 and
    later became its spiritual director with the permission of his Jesuit superior. Later, in
    1945, he received permission to work there full time.
    Slide into rebellion – Unfortunately, it seems that a spirit of independence prevailed at
    SBC. They transformed their work into a school without consulting the Jesuits or the
    diocese. Fr. Feeney also denied other Jesuits the opportunity to help at the Center. Fr.
    Feeney was, at this time, looking for a "displaced" doctrine that would explain the
    doctrinal corruption that he witnessed all around him. In 1947, he announced that extra
    ecclesiam nulla salus, "The Dogma" as SBC refers to it (implying that the other dogmas
    are less important), was the 'displaced' linch-pin doctrine and it became his celebrated
    cause.
     There is no doubt that Fr. Feeney was a brilliant poet, writer, and speaker. His name
    pops up fairly frequently in literature from his times. He was also very zealous for souls.
    He would often speak in the middle of the Boston Common to whoever would listen and
    succeeded in converting many.
    The break and the founding of the Slaves – Unfortunately, however, the germ of
    trouble that began at SBC came to full flower in 1948, when Fr. Feeney's superiors
    transferred him to Holy Cross College in Worcester. At first, he obeyed; he was a Jesuit
    with a vow of obedience. But shortly thereafter two young men from SBC came and
    persuaded him to come back to the center and listen to their pleas for him to stay. He
    listened and he stayed. His superiors wrote him several times, begging him and
    ordering him to obey. He refused and his faculty to hear confessions was suspended
    the last day of 1948. Seventeen days later, Fr. Feeney founded the Slaves of the
    Immaculate Heart of Mary.
     This is where things get a little bizarre. Fr. Feeney founded what he called "his Order"
    without any approval from anyone, Jesuit, Bishop, Pope, etc... Catherine Clarke
    became one of its first members under the name of Sr. Catherine. This was while she
    was still living with her husband Hank. Many other members were added who were
    married with children. These members took a vow of obedience and later a vow of
    chastity was added. It was obviously a bit of a problem to try to lead a religious life and
    yet have young children. The solution for SBC: raise the children communally. Gary
    Potter, in his book After the Boston Heresy Case (apologetic work for SBC), says, "The
    children's parents effectively ceased to exist as parents to the children, and more so as
    a child grew from 3 to 5 to 10 and older. Care was taken that the children had no direct
    or special contact with their parents, save on a half-dozen major feast days during each 
    year when the entire community would gather for socializing. . . The parents were seen
    by the children as scarcely more than another Big Brother or Big Sister." Needless to
    say, no Catholic religious association has ever attempted anything like this.
    Condemnation by the Church – It all went very much downhill from there. Fr. Feeney
    was suspended on 4/18/1949. The Holy Office, whose prefect was Pope Pius XII at the
    time, issued a decree on the proper meaning of extra ecclesiam nulla salus on July 28,
    1949 in response to a request of Abp. Cushing of Boston. Fr. Feeney referred to this as
    a "heretical letter." He was expelled from the Jesuits on October 10 of that year. In
    1952, SBC was put under interdict. On September 24, 1952, SBC sent a letter to Pius
    XII accusing the Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office of heresy. As a result, Fr.
    Feeney was summoned to Rome by Pius XII for a hearing . . . three times. Each time he
    responded with a letter while refusing to go. He was excommunicated on Feb. 13, 1953.
    Today SBC has splintered into 4 different groups, one in NH, two in MA, and one in OH.
     As happens in so many cases, the first act of disobedience of Fr. Feeney led an
    admirable priest to ruin. There is no doubt that the Jesuits were infected by liberalism in
    the 40s and 50s and there were quite a few who did not like Fr. Feeney preaching "no
    salvation outside the Church." His response to this, however, was disastrous. It led him
    to disobedience, the establishment of an order with highly questionable practices, and
    doctrinal aberration. For Fr. Feeney ended up by emphasizing extra ecclesiam nulla
    salus to the point of exaggeration, coming up with a notion contradicting the constant
    Tradition of the Church found in the statements of the Fathers, catechisms, councils,
    and Popes. The teaching of the Church regarding the so-called baptisms of blood and
    desire is part of the ordinary magisterium. Questioning it would be like questioning the
    doctrine of the Assumption before it was defined in 1950. This is made clear in Is
    Feeneyism Catholic? by Fr. Laisney.
    Letter of the Holy Office to the Archbishop of Boston
    Your Excellency:
    This Supreme Sacred Congregation has followed very attentively the rise and the course of
    the grave controversy stirred up by certain associates of “St. Benedict Center” and “Boston
    College” in regard to the interpretation of that axiom: “Outside the Church there is no salvation.”
    After having examined all the docuмents that are necessary or useful in this matter, among
    them information from your Chancery, as well as appeals and reports in which the associates of
    “St. Benedict Center” explain their opinions and complaints, and also many other docuмents
    pertinent to the controversy, officially collected, the same Sacred Congregation is convinced
    that the unfortunate controversy arose from the fact that the axiom, “outside the Church there is
    no salvation,” was not correctly understood and weighed, and that the same controversy was
    rendered more bitter by serious disturbance of discipline arising from the fact that some of the
    associates of the institutions mentioned above refused reverence and obedience to legitimate
    authorities.
    (the letter goes on…)
    F. Cardinal Marchetti-Selvaggiani.
    A. Ottaviani, Assessor.
    Holy Office, 8 Aug., 1949.

    Theology on this question
    The Article of St Thomas
    Resp: Baptism has its efficacy from the Holy Ghost (principal cause) and from Our Lord’s
    Passion (instrumental cause).
    But the principal cause is not constrained to use a given means to produce the effect.
    Thus, the Holy Ghost can produce the effect—a conformity to Christ’s Passion—without the
    sacrament, in martyrdom, i.e.
    • death or at least pains which should have been mortal even if de facto death did not
    follow
    • in odium fidei vel exercitium virtutis (e.g. St Maria Goretti)
    • with the death having been accepted (not on the occasion of a war but by being a
    victim). Jn 15:13: no one can have greater love than dying for his friends: martyrdom is
    the supreme act of charity.
    The Holy Ghost can also move the heart to believe, love God and repent, and communicate
    grace in a situation where there is no ‘real’ conformation to Christ’s Passion yet grace is given
    through His merits. This is called baptism of the Spirit or of repentance or of desire.
    → Baptism of blood and baptism of desire are called “baptisms” metaphorically, insofar as they
    produce an effect of baptism, i.e. grace.
    N.B. – The essence of baptism of desire is not merely a desire of baptism but an act of perfect
    contrition and charity which includes the desire of baptism either explicitly (e.g. a catechumen
    awaiting baptism) or implicitly (ignorance or better nescience with regard to the sacrament of
    Baptism but the soul is disposed to conform to whatever God wants in such a way that if he
    were to know about Baptism he would ask for it immediately and explicitly. Such a disposition is
    a consequence of the presence of charity in his soul). cf. III q.69 a.4 ad 2, and the Holy Office’s
    letter to the Archbishop of Boston DS 3866-3873 below.
    Analogy: in the case of penance, Trent (Dz 898) says that even an act of perfect
    contrition reconciles man to God without the sacrament being received; nevertheless, that
    reconciliation should not be ascribed to contrition apart from the desire of the sacrament which it
    includes (but perfect contrition is more than the simple desire of going to confession). Hence,
    baptism of desire is an act of perfect contrition which at least implicitly contains the desire of
    baptism.
    Father Feeney believed that baptism of desire gives grace (“A man in the Old Testament
    waiting and wanting baptism to be instituted and a man in the New Testament waiting and
    wanting baptism to be administered could both be justified” Bread of Life p.40; “Getting into the
    state of sanctifying grace is justification” id. p.18) but did not believe that this sufficed for salvation. He created a new dogma of faith: ‘no salvation without baptism of water.’ To avoid the
    condemnation of the Council of Trent, he declared that justification and salvation are distinct,
    that one could be justified and have no “claim to the inheritance of Heaven”…but this is
    heretical. Sanctifying grace makes the just man a child of God and gives him a claim to
    the inheritance of Heaven (de fide):
    • (Condemnation of Baius, who said that you could have charity without your sins being
    remitted)
    • Dz 1069-70: true contrition (with charity) remits sin and someone who has charity cannot
    be damned
    • (Trent) Dz 799: the final cause of justification is eternal life.
    → the existence of the baptism of desire is proxima fidei (in particular because of Trent).
    Abp. Lefebvre on the subject (The Spiritual Life, pp.362-363):
    Beyond baptism of water, there is baptism of blood, which is the baptism of martyrs. Those who
    were not baptized in water, but by martyrdom, also received in themselves the grace and the
    charity of our Lord. And then there is baptism of desire, which can be explicit or implicit. Explicit
    baptism of desire is what catechumens have. If they have the interior conditions of regret of their
    sins and of detachment from mortal sin, they have grace.
    Finally, Pope Pius XII spoke of implicit desire, as regards the salvation of infidels, of those who
    have neither baptism of water nor baptism of blood, and who are not catechumens. And God
    knows that there are infidels in the world today! It is the vast majority of men. Can they be
    saved? Can they receive the charity of God in them, and so return to God? Well, the Church
    teaches us that souls have the implicit desire of baptism if they are disposed to do the will of
    God, making an act of charity as perfect as possible within the conditions where they find
    themselves, and if they do not know the Catholic Church, but in such an action manifest a
    desire to conform themselves interiorly and exteriorly to the will of God.
    So, think of a Muslim woman or a Buddhist woman who receives an actual grace from God to
    make an act of perfect charity. In that act is contained the implicit desire for baptism, because in
    choosing that act, she submits her will to the will of God. She says interiorly, “I love God, and if
    He asked me for something right now, I would be ready to do it.” If someone said to her, “God
    asks that you be baptized,” “Ah! Alright,” she would say, “I’m ready to be baptized.” Such a soul
    is well disposed. But she would not be saved by error. No one is saved by a false religion, by a
    religion which is invented by Satan.
    So there can be people who have a well disposed heart, who truly make an act of perfect
    charity. That implicit desire of baptism confers sanctifying grace on them, but it is through the
    Church that they are saved. No one can be saved outside the Church, outside of our Lord,
    outside of baptism.
    And then that person receives sanctifying grace through the implicit desire of baptism, so that
    charity comes into her. That is why she, too, is united to our Lord Jesus Christ, united to the
    Church, even though she does not know it. But we have to recognize that those conditions are normally very difficult, because false
    religions are so permissive as regards sin, as regards vice, and so those people generally have
    vices.
    Positive Theology on the Three Baptisms
    Scripture:
    • Acts 10: Cornelius received the Holy Ghost before baptism (it is the very argument of St
    Peter to have them baptized).
    • As for martyrdom: Our Lord promised heaven to anyone who would die for Him, cf. Matt.
    5:10; 10: 39; 16: 24).
    Fathers1
    :
    • St Ambrose RJ 1328 (concerning the death of a catechumen Valentinian II, a young
    emperor who died in 375; it is because of the intimate knowledge that St Ambrose had of
    this man that he had such confidence) “Sed audio vos dolore quod non acceperit
    sacramenta baptismatis…Atqui…hoc voto habuit…et proxime baptizari se a me velle
    significavit…Non habet ergo gratiam quam desideravit? Non habet quam poposcit?
    Certe quia poposcit accepit. Et unde illud est (Wisdom IV,7) ‘Justus si morte
    præoccupatus fuerit in refrigerium erit’” (“but the just man, though he die early, shall be
    in rest”).
    • And St Ambrose quoted by St Thomas in q.68 a.2 “I lost him whom I was to regenerate
    but he did not lose the grace he prayed for” [it was not just the asking for baptism which
    justified the man but his visible holiness is what made St Ambrose think that he was in
    the state of grace].
    • St Augustine (De Baptismo RJ 1629-1630, quoted at the end of the corpus of our article
    and in q.68 a.2 SC & ad 3): if there is not enough time he says that ‘fidem
    conversionemque cordis’ can supply.
    • St Bernard (epist 77): baptism of desire may be enough as long as “aquam non
    contemptus, sed sola prohibeat impossibilitas.”
    • As for martyrdom there is a great number of quotations possible: Tertullian RJ 309 St
    Cyprian RJ 598, St Cyril of Jerusalem RJ 811 “si quis baptisma non recipiat, salutem
    non habet, solis martyribus exceptis, qui etiam sine aqua regnum recipiunt.”
    According to Suarez, all theologians agree (Abelard may have been the only exception).
    Magisterium:
    • Dz 388 Innocent II (1130-1147): about a “priest” [Feeneyites will argue that this
    expression proves that this text is not trustworthy!] who had never been baptized and
    died: there is no fear about his eternal salvation (quotes St Ambrose): public prayer
    should be offered for him.
    • Dz 413 Innocent III (1198-1216): a Jew who died after having baptized himself was
    saved “propter sacramenti fidem, etsi non propter fidei sacramentum.”
    • Dz 796 Council of Trent: the translation from the state of Adam to the state of grace is
    only possible, since the promulgation of the Gospel, by baptism or “vel eius voto” (the
    desire for it)Dz 847: the sacraments or the desire of them are necessary for salvation.

    • Dz 1677 Encyclical Quanto conficiamus moerore of Pius IX on indifferentism: “they who
    labour in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the
    natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to
    obey God, live an honest and upright life, since God who clearly beholds, searches, and
    knows the minds, souls, thoughts, and habits of all men, because of His great goodness
    and mercy, will by no means suffer anyone to be punished with eternal torment who has
    not the guilt of deliberate sin.”
    • DS 3821 (not in Dz) Mystici Corporis: prayer for those who are not yet members of the
    Church: “we ask each and every one of them to correspond to the interior movements of
    grace, and to seek to withdraw from that state in which they cannot be sure of their
    salvation. For even though by an unconscious desire and longing they have a certain
    relationship with the Mystical Body of the Redeemer, they still remain deprived of those
    many heavenly gifts and helps which can only be enjoyed in the Catholic Church.”
    • DS 3869 Pius XII against Fr Feeney: to obtain eternal salvation it is necessary at least to
    be united to the Church by desire and longing.
    1 cf. books of Father Laisney and of Father Rulleau

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