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Author Topic: Adults In Limbo  (Read 27886 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Adults In Limbo
« Reply #105 on: September 24, 2022, 03:09:27 PM »
Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments." Encyclical On Promotion of False Doctrines (Quanto Conficiamur Moerore) by Pope Pius IX, 1863

Correct.  Did you bother to actually read this?  He's speaking of eternal "punishments".  Infants in Limbo suffer no punishments.  That's the the entire theological premise of Limbo.

Re: Adults In Limbo
« Reply #106 on: September 24, 2022, 03:10:30 PM »
Is this a joke? Epiphany, every time the subject of modern marriage annulments comes up, and anyone here says the new annulments granted since Vatican II on grounds (such as immaturity) that were never considered grounds before Vatican II must be rejected and people must not consider them valid, you always jump in and start defending the validity of those same fake annulments, and claim that everyone must accept them.

I wasn't necessarily including you in my statement about indult-attendees. You seem to be pretty cagey about where you go to church, anyway, so I'll leave you out of this, but I was using the term as a clumsy way to speak collectively about the conservative wing of the Novus Ordo Church, which mostly comprises people who go to the indult. It is a disturbing trend to me to see that, while nearly all of them reject the new mass and sometimes the fake new sacraments and the errors of Vatican II, at the same time nearly all of them accept the modernist marriage annulments that are even more obviously absurd and anti-traditional than the Novus Ordo mass, and more clearly against everything the Church stood for before Vatican II.

To take a high-profile example I've seen recently, I tend to follow Ann Barnhardt's blog, who I believe goes to the indult. She herself has condemned the modern "bullshit marriage annulments" (she has her own set of technical theological terms :laugh1:), she had a piece on her blog the other day about an FSSP priest who left the FSSP, to make a long story short, basically in protest over their closure of churches during the scamdemic and something else I can't recall now. My point is that Ann praised this man for being heterosɛҳuąƖ, and as proof of that she cited the fact that he has been married in the past and that marriage is now annulled, allowing him to become a priest. I thought this very strange, and looked around on the internet, and it turned out this man was married even had his marriage blessed by John Paul II himself (!!), and that same marriage is later annulled. How the "pope" can't perform a marriage correctly is a question I'll leave for others, but the point is that Ann liked this guy for standing up to the scamdemic, so she completely ignored the horrific scandal of him leaving his marriage through what she herself would call a "bullshit annulment" and ended up becoming a priest later on (invalidly ordained, but still a scandal). She accepted the scandal of the annulment out of wishful thinking, because she liked something else this guy was doing.
Yeti,
Off topic here, but only Rome has the authority to claim annulment of a marriage.  There are 1917 grounds for annulment.  Just because Rome considers both modern and 1917 grounds, does not make the 1917 grounds invalid.

Furthermore, it is above my pay grade to determine whether an annulment was granted under 1917 or modern code.  Therefore, i have to accept all annulments as legit.

It is an unfortunate truth, and I suspect Miss Barnhardt believes the same.


Offline Yeti

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Re: Adults In Limbo
« Reply #107 on: September 24, 2022, 03:38:20 PM »
Furthermore, it is above my pay grade to determine whether an annulment was granted under 1917 or modern code.  Therefore, i have to accept all annulments as legit.
 

Okay, so you accept modern annulments as valid. Isn't that what I said in the beginning of this exchange, which you then denied? :facepalm:

And here you say exactly the opposite earlier in this thread:

Quote
epiphany:

While i do believe the 1917 code regarding annulments, which all Catholics are obliged to believe, i have never "defended the fake modern marriage annulments", fiercely or otherwise.

Shame on you, epiphany, for your constant lying around here.

Re: Adults In Limbo
« Reply #108 on: September 24, 2022, 03:47:41 PM »


Okay, so you accept modern annulments as valid. Isn't that what I said in the beginning of this exchange, which you then denied? :facepalm:

And here you say exactly the opposite earlier in this thread:

Shame on you, epiphany, for your constant lying around here.
No, I said I have to accept them because I have no authority to decide which are legit and which are not.  I have never defended  modern annulments.  There is no deceit at all.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Adults In Limbo
« Reply #109 on: September 24, 2022, 03:50:02 PM »
As for myself, I make a distinction ... between practice and principle.  I'll treat those who have an NO annulment as if it was legit (given that I am not privy to the details) ... except that I might question it if prudence suggests an opportunity.  I don't have any authority to impose my conscience on others.  Of course, that doesn't stop me from holding in principle that the vast majority of NO annulments are bogus  And yet, a friend told me something a number of years ago that gave me some pause to think.  He mentioned that the vast majority of those who get married in the NO do not believe in the permanence of marriage (go in with the attitude of, "I'll give it a try, and if it does't work I can always get divorced." or else go into it deliberately planning on limiting children).  That is probably true ... in which case they're just fornicators or adulterers (as the case may be).  But the GROUNDS for NO to grant annulments are borderline absurd.