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Author Topic: Adults In Limbo  (Read 27952 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Adults In Limbo
« Reply #90 on: September 24, 2022, 12:46:07 PM »
Not at all.  We do not know the intellect of the unborn, nor their relationship with God.  However, Church dogma states a possibility of three forms of baptism for all persons.  Remember, a person is a person no matter how small.

You keep lying about some dogma regarding the "three forms of baptism".  If in fact you read Trent as teaching BoD, Trent positively precludes a BoB that does not reduce to BoD.

And now you're citing Dr. Seuss in lieu of Catholic theology?  Of course they are "persons", but they are persons bereft of the use of reason.

I could cite a veritable wall of text from the Catholic Magisterium that infants who die without actual reception of the Sacrament cannot be saved.

Re: Adults In Limbo
« Reply #91 on: September 24, 2022, 12:47:25 PM »
Not at all.  We do not know the intellect of the unborn, nor their relationship with God.  However, Church dogma states a possibility of three forms of baptism for all persons.  Remember, a person is a person no matter how small.
Where does Church dogma state that? Theologians state that. But the Church has never dogmatically said there were three forms of baptism, but one baptism.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Adults In Limbo
« Reply #92 on: September 24, 2022, 12:48:18 PM »
ooooh.  Epiphany is baaaaaack.

And on a down-thumb rampage!  :laugh1: :fryingpan:

Yeah, whatever happened to the new restrictions on downthumbing put in place by Matthew?  This guy goes around serially downthumbing members here who have thousands of more posts and upthumbs than he has.

Re: Adults In Limbo
« Reply #93 on: September 24, 2022, 12:53:39 PM »
You keep lying about some dogma regarding the "three forms of baptism".  If in fact you read Trent as teaching BoD, Trent positively precludes a BoB that does not reduce to BoD.

And now you're citing Dr. Seuss in lieu of Catholic theology?  Of course they are "persons", but they are persons bereft of the use of reason.

I could cite a veritable wall of text from the Catholic Magisterium that infants who die without actual reception of the Sacrament cannot be saved.
It does not pay to continue to interact with the manifest heretic troll. It only give him an audience.  He will dig his own grave....all in due time.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Adults In Limbo
« Reply #94 on: September 24, 2022, 12:59:44 PM »
Let me just pick one.  Case closed.

Council of Florence:
Quote
There is no other way to come to the aid [of infants] than the sacrament of Baptism by which they are snatched from the power of the devil and adopted as children of God

There are dozens of other such passages from the beginnings of the Church, and the Church has always condemned as grave sin the delay of the Sacrament of Baptisms for infants for this very reason.  Even that passage from the Roman Catechism which is construed as arguing for Baptism of Desire states clearly that it cannot apply to infants, and thus Baptism cannot be delayed without grave sin.

Even this Modernist tripe from the Vatican admits that this was the universal Catholic teaching until it was "re-imagined" at Vatican II, but then Vatican II re-imagined lots of things.
https://tinyurl.com/mvs53cpy

Really, the only debate that went on was whether these infants ended up in Hell (with some form lf "mild" punishment) or, rather, had a perfect natural happiness without any punishment or affliction whatsoever.  St. Augustine taught the former, but was almost completely abandone after St. Thomas taught the latter.  There was a brief revival under St. Robert Bellarmine, who tried to come up with a reconciliation between the two, and then the Jansenists, whose rejection of Limbo as "Pelagianism" was condemned by the Church.  But the position of St. Augustine has been almost universally abandoned after Bellarmine and Bossuet.