Liar.
Not once did I say I think unbaptized infants and preborns go to Heaven.  Not Heaven.

What I showed was that the Church teaches there is a possibility that the unborn can be baptized and go to heaven.

Three forms of baptism is dogma of the Church.  Anything else is heresy.

Nah, buddy, you're the heretic, a Pelagian.  Elsewhere you've expressed your believe that non-Catholics (even infidels) can be saved.  BoD cannot apply to infants due to the very nature of what it purports to be, an ex opere operantis act of the will that leads to justification.  Your spouting off (falsely) about BoD being dogma is irrelevant and a distraction.

I agree with the second part, but the first part makes no sense. The godparents answer the questions of the priest in the baptism ceremony. But your next sentence makes no sense. You are saying that the child is not baptized, but also that the parents should similarly be able to answer for the child in the exact same sentence. What exactly is the question you think the parents are able to answer?

The parents would desire their child to be baptized, and would do so if they had the chance to do so.

It was actually Ladislaus who brought up infants in limbo.
https://www.cathinfo.com/the-sacred-catholic-liturgy-chant-prayers/adults-in-limbo/msg846852/#msg846852

Feeneyism doesn't even belong "in the ghetto", because it is heresy plain and simple.

I'm 100% convinced you're a troll now.

Does Catholic Answers still have a forum?  If so, I think that's where epiphany belongs.

It is impossible to have a discussion with someone who can't tell the difference and between what someone says (which i didn't) and what the Church teaches (which i did).
Over and out.

Buh bye.  I hope for good.  Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

No, the Church teaches no such thing.  Even if we were to concede that there is a salvific Baptism of Desire, your extension of BoD to infants is illegitimate.  So your appeal to this "dogma" of BoD and condemnation of Feeneyites as heretics (which I will not bother to address here) is illegitimate and just a distraction.  Pro-BoD Traditional Catholics agree that it cannot apply those those who have not reached the age of reason.

This thread should not be in The Feeneyism Ghetto.

Quote from: Ladislaus 9/23/2022, 1:55:37 PM
Garbage.  BoD is ex opere operantis and cannot be applied vicariously.  This is affirmed repeatedly by Church teaching which states, in various ways, that the Baptism of children cannot be delayed as the only remedy for them from Original Sin is the Sacrament of Baptism.  This is clear even in the passage from the Catechism of Trent that is cited as being evidence of BoD.  Otherwise, there's no particular danger in delaying the Sacrament as long as the parents intend to baptize the child.  Finally, BoD requires not only some intention to receive the Sacrament but also an act of supernatural faith, perfect contrition, etc.  It's only through the Sacrament that supernatural faith and charity can be (passively or ex opere operato) infused into the soul.  Those who are the most ardent proponents of BoD here on CI will admit this.

From Catholic Encyclopedia:

Garbage.

Church Teaching on Baptism of Desire:

• "The sacrament of Baptism is said to be necessary for salvation in so far as man cannot be saved without, at least, Baptism of desire; "which, with God, counts for the deed. (Augustine, Enarr. in Ps. 57)" St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, Whether a man can be saved without Baptism?
• "By which words, a description of the Justification of the impious is indicated,-as being a translation, from that state wherein man is born a child of the first Adam, to the state of grace, and of the adoption of the sons of God, through the second Adam, Jesus Christ, our Saviour. And this translation, since the promulgation of the Gospel, cannot be effected, without the laver of regeneration, or the desire thereof, as it is written; unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God" Council of Trent, Sixth Session, Fourth Chapter, A description is introduced of the Justification of the impious, and of the Manner thereof under the law of grace.
• "baptism of desire is perfect conversion to God by contrition or love of God above all things accompanied by an explicit or implicit desire for true baptism of water, the place of which it takes as to the remission of guilt, but not as to the impression of the [baptismal] character or as to the removal of all debt of punishment. It is called "of wind" ["flaminis"] because it takes place by the impulse of the Holy Ghost who is called a wind ["flamen"]. Now it is "de fide" that men are also saved by Baptism of desire, by virtue of the Canon Apostolicam, "de presbytero non baptizato" and of the Council of Trent" St. Alphonsus Ligouri's Moral Theology Manual (15th century), Bk. 6, no. 95., Concerning Baptism

• "Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments." Encyclical On Promotion of False Doctrines (Quanto Conficiamur Moerore) by Pope Pius IX, 1863
• “Baptism, the door and foundation of the Sacraments, in fact or at least in desire necessary unto salvation for all, is not validly conferred except through the ablution of true and natural water with the prescribed form of words.” (Canon 737)
  “Those who have died without baptism are not to be given ecclesiastical burial. Catechumens who die without baptism through no fault of their own are to be counted among the baptized.” (Canon 1239) 1917 Code of Canon Law
• "A person outside the Church by his own fault, and who dies without perfect contrition, will not be saved. But he who finds himself outside without fault of his own, and who lives a good life, can be saved by the love called charity, which unites unto God, and in a spiritual way also to the Church, that is, to the soul of the Church." Pope St. Pius X, Catechism of Christian Doctrine
• "17 Q: Can the absence of Baptism be supplied in any other way?
  A: The absence of Baptism can be supplied by martyrdom, which is called Baptism of Blood, or by an act of perfect love of God, or of contrition, along with the desire, at least implicit, of Baptism, and this is called Baptism of Desire." Catechism of Pope St. Pius X, The Sacraments - Baptism, Necessity of Baptism and Obligations of the Baptized
• "The Fathers and theologians frequently divide baptism into three kinds: the baptism of water (aquæ or fluminis), the baptism of desire (flaminis), and the baptism of blood (sanguinis). However, only the first is a real sacrament. The latter two are denominated baptism only analogically, inasmuch as they supply the principal effect of baptism, namely, the grace which remits sins. It is the teaching of the Catholic Church that when the baptism of water becomes a physical or moral impossibility, eternal life may be obtained by the baptism of desire or the baptism of blood" 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia, Baptism
• "The efficacy of this baptism of desire to supply the place of the baptism of water, as to its principal effect, is proved from the words of Christ. After He had declared the necessity of baptism (John, iii), He promised justifying grace for acts of charity or perfect contrition (John, xiv): "He that loveth Me, shall be loved of my Father: and I will love him and will manifest myself to him." And again: "If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and will make our abode with him." Since these texts declare that justifying grace is bestowed on account of acts of perfect charity or contrition, it is evident that these acts supply the place of baptism as to its principal effect, the remission of sins" 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia, Baptism, Baptism of Desire
• "The same doctrine is taught by Pope Innocent III (cap. Debitum, iv, De Bapt.), and the contrary propositions are condemned by Popes Pius V and Gregory XII, in proscribing the 31st and 33rd propositions of Baius." 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia, Baptism, Baptism of Desire
• "We have already alluded to the funeral oration pronounced by St. Ambrose over the Emperor Valentinian II, a catechumen. The doctrine of the baptism of desire is here clearly set forth. St. Ambrose asks: "Did he not obtain the grace which he desired? Did he not obtain what he asked for? Certainly he obtained it because he asked for it." St. Augustine (IV, De Bapt., xxii) and St. Bernard (Ep. Ixxvii, ad H. de S. Victore) likewise discourse in the same sense concerning the baptism of desire." 1917 Catholic Encyclopedia, Baptism, Baptism of Desire

Q. 631. Is Baptism necessary to salvation?
A. Baptism is necessary to salvation, because without it we cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Q. 632. Where will persons go who -- such as infants -- have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without baptism?
A. Persons, such as infants, who have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without baptism, cannot enter heaven; but it is the common belief they will go to some place similar to Limbo, where they will be free from suffering, though deprived of the happiness of heaven.

Q. 644. How many kinds of Baptism are there?
A. There are three kinds of Baptism: 1.Baptism of water, of desire, and of blood.

Q. 650. What is Baptism of desire?
A. Baptism of desire is an ardent wish to receive Baptism, and to do all that God has ordained for our salvation.

Q. 651. What is Baptism of blood?
A. Baptism of blood is the shedding of one's blood for the faith of Christ.

Q. 653. Is Baptism of desire or of blood sufficient to produce the effects of Baptism of water?
A. Baptism of desire or of blood is sufficient to produce the effects of the Baptism of water, if it is impossible to receive the Baptism of water.

Q. 654. How do we know that the baptism of desire or of blood will save us when it is impossible to receive the baptism of water?
A. We know that baptism of desire or of blood will save us when it is impossible to receive the baptism of water, from Holy Scripture, which teaches that love of God and perfect contrition can secure the remission of sins ; and also that Our Lord promises salvation to those who lay down their life for His sake or for His teaching.

Q. 632. Where will persons go who -- such as infants -- have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without baptism?
A. Persons, such as infants, who have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without baptism, cannot enter heaven; but it is the common belief they will go to some place similar to Limbo, where they will be free from suffering, though deprived of the happiness of heaven.

Epiphany, this is the correct and Catholic teaching on infants who die without baptism.

What I showed was that the Church teaches there is a possibility that the unborn can be baptized and go to heaven.

This is really bizarre. You showed this? Where? I can't find it anywhere in this thread. Can you please point it out to me? And also show us where the Church teaches what you're claiming it teaches in this statement?