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Author Topic: Aborted babies & baptism of blood  (Read 14481 times)

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Offline Cantarella

Re: Aborted babies & baptism of blood
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2019, 10:31:28 AM »
Fr. Fenney:

Quote
Salvation in the Old Testament was from God the Father, promising the Blood of His Divine Son. Salvation in the New Testament is from God the Son, promising His water and the Holy Ghost.

The Blood that flowed from the side of Jesus when He died on the Cross was a testimony to us of what God the Father had given. God the Father did not spare His only Divine Son.

The Water that flowed from the side of Christ, when He was crucified on the Cross, was a testimony of the Water of Baptism, which He would give, in union with the Holy Ghost, to save the world. “As the Father hath sent me,” Christ said to His Apostles, “I also send you.” (John 20:21.)

Salvation in the New Testament is the complete performance of the Blessed Trinity — is of the Father, and the Son He sent, and of the Holy Ghost, sent by the Son. “But I tell you the truth,” Our Lord said, “it is expedient to you that I go: for if I go not, the Paraclete will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.” (John 16:7.)

The waters of Baptism were purchased by the Blood of Jesus. Those who teach whatever Jesus commanded His Apostles to teach, now teach with raging tongues of fire. Baptism is the water of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, Who was sent by the First Person, to take water and unite it to the power of the Third.

The Blessed Trinity is in complete covenant with the world once Baptism has been given us by Jesus. When Jesus was baptized by John in the River Jordan, the Father’s voice was heard, saying, “This is My Beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased.” And the Spirit of God — the Holy Spirit — was seen, descending in the form of a dove.
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Offline Geremia

Re: Aborted babies & baptism of blood
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2019, 03:52:22 PM »
Quote from: Nadir on February 08, 2019, 10:52:05 PM
What are St Robert's grounds for such a statement.

here's the fixed link: De Sacramento Baptismi p. 166, first full ¶:
Quote from: St. Robert Bellarmine
Some [who argue martyrdom alone cannot justify] respond that the Innocents were circuмcised, hence justified before martyrdom. But this is not so. For it is uncertain whether they were all circuмcised; nay, it is very probable and almost certain not all were circuмcised. For Herod killed all the children who were in Bethlehem and its environs; he did not command only the children of Jews but utterly all be killed: and perhaps not a few Gentiles were among them. Moreover, he ordered that all infants two years and younger be killed, hence even those who were not yet 8 days old, who alone can be circuмcised. Still, it is not de fide that circuмcision justifies, and yet the Church certainly believes that absolutely all those infants are saved. Further, the Church not only believes the Innocents are saved but even honors them as martyrs; therefore, suffering for Christ conveys something to them ex opere operato. Nor is Scotus's argument that this is a privilege of children count: for it is asserted without any grounds. For if martyrdom profits infants ex opere operato, why not adults? Certainly the martyrdom of adults is no less powerful and efficacious than of infants; rather, it is more powerful, more noble, and more efficacious.

Quote from: Nadir on February 08, 2019, 10:52:05 PM
If they weren't circuмcised then they weren't Jєωιѕн, and so would not have been martyred.
Circuмcision nor water baptism is required for martyrdom.
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Offline Geremia

Re: Aborted babies & baptism of blood
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2019, 03:52:33 PM »
Quote from: Cantarella on February 09, 2019, 10:22:50 AM
Most Holy Innocents would have been circuмcised anyway, just like the martyrs have most likely been water baptized.
St. Emerentiana was a young martyred catechumen (cf. Pohle-Preuss v. 1 p. 251).
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Offline Geremia

Re: Aborted babies & baptism of blood
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2019, 04:03:02 PM »
Quote from: Cantarella on February 09, 2019, 10:31:28 AM
Fr. Fenney:
Quote
Salvation in the Old Testament was from God the Father, promising the Blood of His Divine Son. Salvation in the New Testament is from God the Son, promising His water and the Holy Ghost.
Quote
Salvation in the New Testament is the complete performance of the Blessed Trinity
What's his support of these assertions?
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Aborted babies & baptism of blood
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2019, 04:13:29 PM »
Quote from: Geremia on February 09, 2019, 03:52:33 PM
St. Emerentiana was a young martyred catechumen (cf. Pohle-Preuss v. 1 p. 251).

Red herring.  She was obviously put to death on account of being Christian.  What's at issue is whether unborn babies who are killed largely indiscriminately, for reasons of personal selfishness or financial gain, could qualify as martyrs.  I would imagine that there's maybe one case out of a million where the abortion doctor thinks, "Aha, I want to kill this baby because he's otherwise grow up to be a Christian."  And exactly ZERO mothers subject their children to abortion because they don't want their child to become Christian ... for all they'd have to do is to raise them to think otherwise and to reject Christianity.  So on all fronts applying BoB to aborted babies is an epic fail, an exercise in emotion-based pseudo-theology ... from where all anti-EENS thinking originates.
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