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Author Topic: Aborted babies & baptism of blood  (Read 19071 times)

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Offline Incredulous

Re: Aborted babies & baptism of blood
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2019, 12:55:39 PM »
Quote from: ihsv on February 08, 2019, 10:08:29 AM
This "aborted babies and baptism of blood" notion is a perfect example of "mission creep."   What started out as theological speculation with a very narrow set of parameters (a catechumen who dies for explicit faith in Christ and His Church) ends up undermining the entire edifice of Catholic doctrine.   Truth isn't necessary, the sacraments aren't necessary, the moral law isn't necessary, revelation isn't necessary, the true religion isn't necessary.  Not even "accepting Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior" is necessary.  None of it is necessary.  

We're supposed to be resisting error.  Why even bother?  Clearly, truth doesn't matter.  People can get to heaven without it.

Add to that the fact that, if aborted babies get "baptism of blood" and go straight to heaven, then abortion loses it's horror.  

The early Catholics did not resist persecution and martyrdom.  They embraced it.  If aborted babies go to heaven, then why are we resisting their "martyrdom"?  It seems to me the abortionist is doing them a favor, sending them straight to heaven.
"Mission creep"... beautiful!
200 years ago, from the ѕуηαgσgυєs, the devil and his minions could foresee it happening.
And in the early 1940s, Father Feeney figured it out.  
He understood that Catholics had become weak in the Faith by the wavering and uncertainty of salvation outside the Church.
And now we have the trad Pope (Fellay) opening the Gates of Heaven to all those who "wish" it could be  :facepalm:
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Aborted babies & baptism of blood
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2019, 01:51:47 PM »
Yes, the lack of any act of the will on the part of infants is key.

To say that BoB can apply to infants turns the action of BoB into ex opere operato ... i.e. essentially into a Sacrament.

BoB has an interesting history.  St. Cyprian, perhaps the originator of the notion, spoke of BoB as a SACRAMENT.  Modern theologians cite this as an error.

But was it really?

Elsewhere, St. Cyprian says that BoB martyrs are "washed" in their own blood while angels pronounce the words.

So he saw it as an alterate mode of receiving the Sacrament, with blood supplying for water as the matter, while angels supplied the missing form.  He did not see this as an exception to the dogma that the Sacraments are necessary for salvation.
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Offline Geremia

Re: Aborted babies & baptism of blood
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2019, 02:03:43 PM »
Quote from: ihsv on February 07, 2019, 11:10:21 PM
No he couldn't, because the child is not a Christian.
Nor were the Holy Innocents before martyrdom. Some were not even circuмcised (cf. St. Robert Bellarmine De Sacramento Baptismi p. 166, first full ¶); thus, they were justified solely by martyrdom.
Quote from: ihsv on February 07, 2019, 11:10:21 PM
Furthermore, the child is incapable of having a rational thought, and is in capable of forming any intention whatsoever, explicit or implicit.
One needn't be of the age of reason to be martyred. See Pope Benedict XIV's bull Beatus Andreas for several examples of young martyrs.
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Offline Geremia

Re: Aborted babies & baptism of blood
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2019, 02:08:15 PM »
Quote from: ihsv on February 08, 2019, 10:08:29 AM
Add to that the fact that, if aborted babies get "baptism of blood" and go straight to heaven, then abortion loses it's horror.
It's not the gravest sin there is. Atheism/unbelief, for example, is much more serious.
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Offline Geremia

Re: Aborted babies & baptism of blood
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2019, 02:08:46 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on February 08, 2019, 01:51:47 PM
Yes, the lack of any act of the will on the part of infants is key.
How do you explain the Holy Innocents, then?
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