oops I misspelt but it was definitely you!

Have not seen nor heard of Raul Julia in ages.

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

I suggest you two keep this in PM, it gets old reading the same argument on thread after thread.

I am not interested in seeing his rubbish in PM's any more than I want to see it on the forum.

Why don't you also tell SJB to stop the campaign of detraction? If enough Catholics tell him stop, maybe he will.

I'm not interested in your rubbish either.

I told you both to stop.

Seriously guys, you're acting childish.

SS, I think you might be overlooking the fact that if Catholics do not make objections to the what the campaigners are doing, some people may think they are right, and their calumnies and detractions will do more damage to souls.

Already three members here have had to make retractions and restitution after allowing themselves to be sucked in and dragged down into sin by the campaigners.

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

I told you both to stop.

Seriously guys, you're acting childish.

SS, I think you might be overlooking the fact that if Catholics do not make objections to the what the campaigners are doing, some people may think they are right, and their calumnies and detractions will do more damage to souls.

Already three members here have had to make retractions and restitution after allowing themselves to be sucked in and dragged down into sin by the campaigners.

Or Catholics should be making objections to what the clerics are doing before they do more damage to souls.

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: Cupertino

Quote from: SJB

Or Catholics should be making objections to what the clerics are doing before they do more damage to souls.

Clerics are "doing"? Perhaps "did". What is your definition of forgiveness? Only forgive upon an apology, but no sooner?

No, doing would be correct. That's an interesting question. Can you provide us with more than some of your "homebrew" moral guidance, or will you quote something?

Btw, I do forgive them. That doesn't mean all is well and anybody with some modicuм of common sense and good will can see that.

Okay, so you can refer to common sense without a quote, but you want me to provide a quote for common sense!

I have quoted many times, and I can do so on this point. The fact is that you didn't and thus made it seem like there are no distinctions to be made.

So, you can see for miles and miles, and they are presently "doing" something sinful right now, as well as planning to continue to do so. What is this sin specifically? (Of course, I am only asking for what has already been done to death here.)

No, you just make it sound like what was done is over and done. You won't even admit to any wrongdoing, so why do you care about forgiveness in this case?

FORGIVENESS - The taking back into favour of one by whom we have been slighted, disobeyed, robbed, or in any way injured. Forgiveness is a necessary fruit of Christian charity, and if the offender has expressed sorrow or otherwise tried to make amends is due in justice. But if one is in the position of having the right to inflict punishment (e.g., as a parent), forgiveness does not necessarily involve the remission of punishment.

What does justice require of the offender? Does he just sit and wait for the forgiveness while saying he didn't do anything wrong? You assume we are dealing with men of good will, which is a mistake, in my opinion.

No, you just make it sound like what was done is over and done. You won't even admit to any wrongdoing, so why do you care about forgiveness in this case?

Quote from: A Catholic Dictionary (1943)

FORGIVENESS - The taking back into favour of one by whom we have been slighted, disobeyed, robbed, or in any way injured. Forgiveness is a necessary fruit of Christian charity, and if the offender has expressed sorrow or otherwise tried to make amends is due in justice. But if one is in the position of having the right to inflict punishment (e.g., as a parent), forgiveness does not necessarily involve the remission of punishment.

What does justice require of the offender? Does he just sit and wait for the forgiveness while saying he didn't do anything wrong? You assume we are dealing with men of good will, which is a mistake, in my opinion.

What more do you really want from the clergy who have evidently destroyed your life?

You know, we used to think maybe one of the people who did deliberate harm to our family would walk over from the school or rectory and say they were sorry. or see how were getting along-we'd have been on all fours biting the carpet with dog-like gratitude.  After a while, we had to admit it just was not going to happen, and mere people were not the answer.

You are endlessly appealing to creatures -apparently no less than every single soul will satisfy- to end your personal agony.  Appeal instead to the Holy Face of Jesus Christ.  Beg Our Lord to forgive them for you, instead of begging us to admit how bad your enemies are.  They are by no means as bad as you feel they are.    

If you have to drive by St. Clare's to get to work or the store (or whatever you do regularly)  make certain that you change your route.

Whatever triggers your misery and stress, especially visually, get rid of it.  Don't look at it, and don't spend time with people who remind you of St. Clare's, even if they are good friends.

You need to get rid of all the "triggers" for awhile so you can get your life back on track.  

 :chef:  I have been on a total cookie, loaf and treat baking marathon for days on end with the laptop handy  :chef: so you should listen to me!   :chef:  

What more do you really want from the clergy who have evidently destroyed your life?

Evidently, you misunderstand.

You know, we used to think maybe one of the people who did deliberate harm to our family would walk over from the school or rectory and say they were sorry. or see how were getting along-we'd have been on all fours biting the carpet with dog-like gratitude.  After a while, we had to admit it just was not going to happen, and mere people were not the answer.

Oh, I don't expect this because I don't take it so personal. Evil people are just out there. I'd much rather see people amend their ways regardless of if their evil was directed at me personally, which in this case I don't believe. I wasn't personally singled out as I believe Fr. C liked me as a person. My opposition is not personal, even though I think he needs serious correction. The problem is he'll hear nothing of it ... from anybody on any subject.

You are endlessly appealing to creatures -apparently no less than every single soul will satisfy- to end your personal agony.  Appeal instead to the Holy Face of Jesus Christ.  Beg Our Lord to forgive them for you, instead of begging us to admit how bad your enemies are.  They are by no means as bad as you feel they are.

Actually, Eliz, my sense of justice is more irritated by the defenders of evil or the dismissers of evil, the latter you seem to have become, than by the evil itself. I am mostly responding to creatures, rather than appealing to them.  

If you have to drive by St. Clare's to get to work or the store (or whatever you do regularly)  make certain that you change your route.

Whatever triggers your misery and stress, especially visually, get rid of it.  Don't look at it, and don't spend time with people who remind you of St. Clare's, even if they are good friends.

You need to get rid of all the "triggers" for awhile so you can get your life back on track.

You really do misunderstand. Could you be describing your own situation? All this talk about "personal agony" is really quite alien to me.  

:chef:  I have been on a total cookie, loaf and treat baking marathon for days on end with the laptop handy  :chef: so you should listen to me!   :chef:

I listened to you. I hope you heard me too.

Wishing you a very Merry Christmas!