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Author Topic: "On the Fewness of the Saved: Teaching of the Saints" Fr. Francis-Xavier Godts  (Read 8383 times)

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Offline DecemRationis

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Fr. Godts in chapter 4, "The Teaching of the Saints is Approved by the Theologians," quotes a Fr. Mauran, who says:

"Alas it must be admitted that the great majority tell us, as St. Thomas Aquinas does, that the saved are in the minority!- What a terrible doctrine.  I must admit that it has always shocked me.- Yet it is very painful to see such an opinion taught throughout the Middle Ages.  In our own days those theological treatises that are classics in a great many Major Seminaries still teach the same opinion, notably the theological manuals of Vencent and Bonal.  Cardinal Gousset also tells us that 'the majority of men are lost.'  Yet a reaction against these deplorable doctrines is becoming established in men's minds." (pg. 123)

This quote from Fr. Mauran safely summarizes Fr. Godts' position.  I think it safe to say that were Fr. Godts living today he would be of the "Rigorist" camp, which is to say that the majority of baptized, adult Catholics are damned.  Today, we as traditional Catholics, would probably modify the "Rigorist" position to read, "Only those baptized Catholics who attend the Latin Mass and condemn the New Mass, will be saved."  This is my position as a traditional Catholic.  Of course we can argue what constitutes "the Latin Mass"/"New mass", et cetera.

Let us assume that there are 10 million Traditional Catholics in the world, which might be a high figure.  Or consider this statistic: Assuming the world population to be 7 billion, one percent of the world population would be 70 million; so assuming all Trads save their souls, this would be 1/7th of one percent of the world population.   

Then there's that chilling forecast of Our Lord:

Luke 18:8

I say to you, that he will quickly revenge them. But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he find, think you, faith on earth?

Offline AnthonyPadua

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Some quotes I found

https://fewnessofthesaved.com/getQuotes.html

https://old.reddit.com/r/Catholicism/comments/uxmc7y/many_are_called_few_are_saved_proved/

I wonder if there are even 1 million traditional Catholics in the world, and how many of them are among the elect... All the more reason to fear and tremble.


Offline Stubborn

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Since you've nearly finished the book. What % are we talking here saved? 0.0001%? Overall comment on the fewness?
In the same vein, does he say anything about the number of clergy, hierarchy or popes that are saved?

Offline Yeti

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I think this subject should be treated with a certain amount of delicacy and balance. Obviously if you are talking to Novus Ordo people who think everyone goes to heaven especially them, they need to be confronted with stuff like this as a wake-up call.

But with people who actually believe in the Catholic Faith, who believe in Hell and believe one mortal sin will send them there, and believe that everything the Church says is mortally sinful is actually mortally sinful, this sort of topic can become frightening and discouraging if it is not balanced with considerations of the power of God's grace and His desire to help everyone save their soul.

Personally, I believe the percentage of people going to heaven has changed dramatically over the course of history. I think in the Middle Ages a much higher percentage of people were saved than in pagan times, and much more than today.

That being said, when I look at the traditional Catholics I know, the vast majority of them appear to me to be on the way of salvation, although only God sees the heart.

Since this information is hidden from us by God's will, I actually don't think about it that much and I don't think it's all that relevant to our salvation except as an incentive to try our utmost to be saved. Our souls are not graded on a curve; the number of other people who go to either place will not change the terms under which our souls will be judged anyway.

There are actually a lot of respectable theologians who have taught that they believe the majority of adult Catholics will be saved, due to the power of the sacraments and God's grace.

Fr. Faber wrote a fascinating treatise on this question in his book "The Creator and the Creature" in which he compiles every opinion of every theologian he can get his hands on, and what they think about this. He specifically excludes any opinion about non-Catholics, but gives the results of his massive study on the question. I think he says a slight majority of theologians think the majority of Catholic adults will be lost, though if you include those dying in infancy then a majority of theologians believe a majority will be saved. He himself believes the great majority of adult Catholics will be saved, and spends the rest of the chapter explaining his reasons for thinking that.

His study is thorough, careful, prudent and wise. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in the question of what percentage of Catholics will be saved.

Offline AnthonyPadua

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I think this subject should be treated with a certain amount of delicacy and balance. Obviously if you are talking to Novus Ordo people who think everyone goes to heaven especially them, they need to be confronted with stuff like this as a wake-up call.

But with people who actually believe in the Catholic Faith, who believe in Hell and believe one mortal sin will send them there, and believe that everything the Church says is mortally sinful is actually mortally sinful, this sort of topic can become frightening and discouraging if it is not balanced with considerations of the power of God's grace and His desire to help everyone save their soul.

Personally, I believe the percentage of people going to heaven has changed dramatically over the course of history. I think in the Middle Ages a much higher percentage of people were saved than in pagan times, and much more than today.

That being said, when I look at the traditional Catholics I know, the vast majority of them appear to me to be on the way of salvation, although only God sees the heart.

Since this information is hidden from us by God's will, I actually don't think about it that much and I don't think it's all that relevant to our salvation except as an incentive to try our utmost to be saved. Our souls are not graded on a curve; the number of other people who go to either place will not change the terms under which our souls will be judged anyway.

There are actually a lot of respectable theologians who have taught that they believe the majority of adult Catholics will be saved, due to the power of the sacraments and God's grace.

Fr. Faber wrote a fascinating treatise on this question in his book "The Creator and the Creature" in which he compiles every opinion of every theologian he can get his hands on, and what they think about this. He specifically excludes any opinion about non-Catholics, but gives the results of his massive study on the question. I think he says a slight majority of theologians think the majority of Catholic adults will be lost, though if you include those dying in infancy then a majority of theologians believe a majority will be saved. He himself believes the great majority of adult Catholics will be saved, and spends the rest of the chapter explaining his reasons for thinking that.

His study is thorough, careful, prudent and wise. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in the question of what percentage of Catholics will be saved.
You don't give bread to newborns nor wine to infants, but milk. Lest scandel is caused.