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Author Topic: "Minority Viewpoint" or Heresy?  (Read 1560 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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"Minority Viewpoint" or Heresy?
« on: September 22, 2014, 07:17:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: Nishant
    Throughout the Christian ages, the Athanasian Creed was always and everywhere understood to mean no one was saved without the Catholic Faith, "Whoever wishes to be saved, before all things he must hold the Catholic Faith. Now the Catholic Faith is this, that we worship God in Trinity, and Trinity in unity ... whoever wishes to be saved must think thus on the Trinity. Furthermore it is necessary for everlasting salvation that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of Our Lord Jesus Christ. This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe firmly and faithfully, he cannot be saved." This is Tradition, this is what we must believe and must defend, the necessity of the Catholic Faith.

    The idea that this refers to a necessity of precept only is a novelty, first seriously suggested in the 15th and 16th centuries. But what is far worse than what was suggested, by Suarez and some of the Salmanticenses, which was generally regarded as a discredited minority viewpoint, is the utterly novel and heterodox idea that Jєωs, Muslims and pagans living in the midst of us Catholics, not on some distant isle, can be saved without the Catholic Faith and without knowing and loving Jesus Christ, dates practically to the 19th and 20th century.


    OK, so until the 15th and 16th centuries it was believed "always and everywhere" that one cannot be saved without explicit believe without explicit belief in the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation.  That would seem MORE than sufficient to establish this as infallible dogmatic teaching of the Ordinary Universal Magisterium.  In fact, if that doesn't constitute such a teaching, then I have absolutely no idea what belongs to the Ordinary Universal Magisterium.

    So now a "novel" opinion comes along, and a bunch of liberal / modernist types embrace it.  So instead of this being "heresy", which it is to deny such a teaching of the Ordinary Universal Magisterium, the modern BoDer Pelagians call it an "acceptable minority opinion".


    Offline tdrev123

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    "Minority Viewpoint" or Heresy?
    « Reply #1 on: September 22, 2014, 08:27:46 PM »
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  • I think the Athanasian creed really is the nail in the BoDers coffin...But they have their 'meaningless formulas' to refute Catholic creeds too.


    Online Ladislaus

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    "Minority Viewpoint" or Heresy?
    « Reply #2 on: September 23, 2014, 09:24:13 AM »
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    Online Ladislaus

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    "Minority Viewpoint" or Heresy?
    « Reply #3 on: September 23, 2014, 09:26:04 AM »
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  • Quote from: tdrev123
    I think the Athanasian creed really is the nail in the BoDers coffin...But they have their 'meaningless formulas' to refute Catholic creeds too.


    To be fair, BoD and explicit belief are separate issues.  It's actually the BoDers who deliberately conflate the two.  They believe that in citing various Church Doctors who happened to be in favor of BoD they at the same time prove that these Doctors believed that those who do not explicitly believe in the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation can be saved.  They believed no such thing.

    Offline PG

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    "Minority Viewpoint" or Heresy?
    « Reply #4 on: September 23, 2014, 11:40:22 AM »
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  • "No response from anyone?"

    Ladislaus - Don't worry, your posts are helpful.  Keep them coming.  I don't have the time to respond in ways I would like, so I often don't.  I also also am not educated enough.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Online Ladislaus

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    "Minority Viewpoint" or Heresy?
    « Reply #5 on: September 23, 2014, 02:09:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: + PG +
    "No response from anyone?"

    Ladislaus - Don't worry, your posts are helpful.  Keep them coming.  I don't have the time to respond in ways I would like, so I often don't.  I also also am not educated enough.  


    I was referring to someone like LoT who clearly has the time and inclination to spend hours spamming all over the forum but won't answer a direct targeted question.

    As I've said many times, these threads need to deal with very specific and narrowly-circuмscribed topics; otherwise every single one gets blown wide open into a 200-page discussion of any and all things BoD-related.  It's extremely frustrating.

    So here's a topic.  One of the biggest arguments from the BoD proponents comes from the Ordinary Universal Magisterium.  But there's an inconsistency in their position that I highlight in the OP here.

    Online Ladislaus

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    "Minority Viewpoint" or Heresy?
    « Reply #6 on: September 24, 2014, 03:05:09 PM »
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    Online Ladislaus

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    "Minority Viewpoint" or Heresy?
    « Reply #7 on: September 24, 2014, 03:08:01 PM »
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  • [duplicate]


    Offline MariaCatherine

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    "Minority Viewpoint" or Heresy?
    « Reply #8 on: September 26, 2014, 10:57:06 AM »
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  • Ladislaus, I think your answer actually lies in Saul Alinsky's 'Rules for Radicals'.  

    I just started reading this; maybe it will fill in some blanks for you (and others) too.

    The enemies of Truth all have in common that the ends justify the means - which is of course contrary to Church teaching.  They will do anything.
    What return shall I make to the Lord for all the things that He hath given unto me?