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Author Topic: "Conciliar Church" and Feeneyism  (Read 1322 times)

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Offline s2srea

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"Conciliar Church" and Feeneyism
« on: December 29, 2021, 07:31:35 AM »
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    • As someone is agnostic on the Feeneyite controversy, I was wondering if there are 'Feeneyite' trads who belive that Vatican II created a parallel "Conciliar" church. I imagine they would have to be either R&R or sedeprivationists.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: "Conciliar Church" and Feeneyism
    « Reply #1 on: December 29, 2021, 07:42:04 AM »
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    • We, the Catholic Church, had our Pentecost at, well, Pentecost. The conciliar church had theirs at V2.

    The conciliar church is not the Catholic Church.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: "Conciliar Church" and Feeneyism
    « Reply #2 on: December 29, 2021, 08:49:43 AM »
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    • Quote from: s2srea on December 29, 2021, 07:31:35 AM
    As someone is agnostic on the Feeneyite controversy, I was wondering if there are 'Feeneyite' trads who belive that Vatican II created a parallel "Conciliar" church. I imagine they would have to be either R&R or sedeprivationists.
    I identify myself by what I am, and not what I am not. Rather than saying what you are not (*and imprecisely), why don't you tell us what you are?

    Example:

    Quote
    As someone that believes in salvation of non-Catholics by implicit faith, I was wondering if there are any trads who instead believe EENS as it is written*, and who believe that Vatican II created a parallel "Conciliar" church. I imagine they would have to be either R&R or sedeprivationists.

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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: "Conciliar Church" and Feeneyism
    « Reply #3 on: December 29, 2021, 08:54:28 AM »
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    • Quote from: s2srea on December 29, 2021, 07:31:35 AM
    As someone is agnostic on the Feeneyite controversy, I was wondering if there are 'Feeneyite' trads who belive that Vatican II created a parallel "Conciliar" church. I imagine they would have to be either R&R or sedeprivationists.

    Why is that?
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    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: "Conciliar Church" and Feeneyism
    « Reply #4 on: December 29, 2021, 08:55:04 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on December 29, 2021, 07:42:04 AM
    We, the Catholic Church, had our Pentecost at, well, Pentecost. The conciliar church had theirs at V2.

    The conciliar church is not the Catholic Church.

    Indeed.
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    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline Ferdi

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    Re: "Conciliar Church" and Feeneyism
    « Reply #5 on: December 29, 2021, 11:49:57 AM »
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    • Quote from: DecemRationis on December 29, 2021, 08:54:28 AM
    Why is that?
    I assume that many Sedevacantists accept BoD because they put more emphasis on whatever comes from Rome. If you accept R&R and basically think that nothing the current popes are saying is binding for you, then it's not difficult to discard a letter from the Holy Office as well.
    It might be a bit simplistic though, so correct me if I'm wrong.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: "Conciliar Church" and Feeneyism
    « Reply #6 on: December 29, 2021, 12:06:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ferdi on December 29, 2021, 11:49:57 AM
    I assume that many Sedevacantists accept BoD because they put more emphasis on whatever comes from Rome. If you accept R&R and basically think that nothing the current popes are saying is binding for you, then it's not difficult to discard a letter from the Holy Office as well.
    It might be a bit simplistic though, so correct me if I'm wrong.

    That's always been my belief as well.  In battling against R&R, many SVs have exaggerated the authority of anything papal, and so they give Suprema Haec too much weight.  But they neglect the fact that SH was never published in AAS and is therefore not authentic Magisterium (by canonical definition).  I believe the docuмent was a fraud perpetrated by Cushing, since he wasted several years until after the alleged issue date to publish it, right after the Cardinal who allegedly signed it had died.  Of course, these same SVs reject the 1955 Holy Week changes.

    Some, like Father Cekada, have created a pseudo-doctrine regarding the "infallibility of theologians" ... so he argues that because all theologians right before V2 held it, we are bound to accept it.  Of course, he ignores the fact that ALL theologians endorsed the teachings of Vatican II.
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    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: "Conciliar Church" and Feeneyism
    « Reply #7 on: December 29, 2021, 12:21:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ferdi on December 29, 2021, 11:49:57 AM
    I assume that many Sedevacantists accept BoD because they put more emphasis on whatever comes from Rome. If you accept R&R and basically think that nothing the current popes are saying is binding for you, then it's not difficult to discard a letter from the Holy Office as well.
    It might be a bit simplistic though, so correct me if I'm wrong.

    Ferdi, Ok. I see where you (and probably the original poster) are coming from. 

    But as Lad noted, the Holy Office letter was not even published in the Acta. So one can reject it as a fraud or question it as Magisterial, and still have a Sede view as to authentic Magisterial authority. 
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    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline s2srea

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    Re: "Conciliar Church" and Feeneyism
    « Reply #8 on: December 30, 2021, 05:41:39 AM »
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    • Sorry guys. Got busy at work yesterday. i appreciate all the responses. 

    I asked my question because I was wondering what someone would make of the Catholic man who belonged to the Catholic Church pre VII and belonged to it after the Council. 
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: "Conciliar Church" and Feeneyism
    « Reply #9 on: December 30, 2021, 05:59:47 AM »
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    • Well, my parents (+rip) belonged to the Church before and after the Council, keeping the faith they always knew, they never went with the new religion and never went sede.

    Because although they did not know what happened to their Church (like many other faithful), the knew what was happening within the Church was wrong so they never went along with it. Like many others, they automatically or perhaps better said, inherently or intrinsically stuck with what they knew was right. Reference here the good analogy Last Tradhican gave us:

    "U.S. Treasury agents who specialize in forgery detection, when they are being trained, are never shown any forgeries, they are strictly immersed in learning every minute detail of the real thing. That way, they can spot the forgery instantly..."

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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse
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