I'm looking for simple melodies that would be appropriate post-offertory or post-communion. By appropriate I mean old, 2-4 minutes long, simple but not trite, not passionate, nor bright and lively (no gigues, pavannes, gavottes, etc.), and not recognizably composed by a Freemason.

Any suggestions?

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Nothing against woodwinds or strings, but they're not appropriate instruments for Mass.  

Brass, percussion (includes piano), strings (yes, violins and harps), and even electronincs like synthesizers, are all profane instruments.  

The preferred instrument is the human voice, and secondarily there is the pipe organ.

Organ can accompany the voice(s), but for most Mass music, the voice should be a cappella.  The term, "a cappella," is the standard term for voice without any instrumental accompaniment, but most instructively, it literally means, "in the manner of the chapel," because the human voice alone, without any organ or other instrument is what the manner of the chapel is, and has been since the earliest Catholic Church.  In the catacombs, Chant was sung, without instrumental parts played, and the tradition grew from there.  All the monasteries of renown have had daily chanting without any organ droning in the background.  Gregorian Chant is always appropriately sung WITHOUT any organ.  

If anyone has an objection that the voices don't stay in tune without the organ, there are two proofs of the fallacy of that claim:

1)  The singers stay in tune when they learn how to make the appropriate TONE QUALITY that is just right for Mass.  E.g., if a singer sounds like 'this is an opera' the tone quality is WRONG for Mass.  The music sung at Mass is not a performance for entertainment.

2)  When you listen to a recording of one or more voices singing Gregorian Chant with an organ accompaniment, and the singer and/or producer believe(s) that the organ keeps the singer(s) in tune, listen for pitches carefully, and you will always find that the singer with the problem is constantly a shade flat, lower than the organ, which is an ugly sound ALL THE TIME, so the organ isn't doing anything useful but merely provides ongoing DISSONANCE.  This problem is generally also a problem of a tin ear in the singer, who can't tell that he is singing flat compared to the organ.  In such cases, they may believe that the organ is 'necessary' otherwise the singer would just keep sinking like a leaky boat, but in fact, the singer is at BEST in a non-stop process of 'catching up to the organ' because the organ is always SHARP in comparison.  So the problem is in the singer, not the organ.


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Neil - Give him the benefit of the doubt, I think it is likely that he knows that(despite the title).  And, don't forget about the trumpet.  Trumpets were used for the 1988 consecrations.  I don't think that they are suitable for offertory or communion.  But I think it is interesting that they were used.

I'm not speaking from ignorance.  Why would anyone want to have suggestions for "post-offertory or post-communion" if they don't plan on playing them?  

"...appropriate post-offertory or post-communion. By appropriate I mean old, 2-4 minutes long, simple but not trite, not passionate, nor bright and lively..."

Did you see "appropriate" in there, PG?  

There is nothing wrong with having a desire to contribute to the beauty of the Mass, but profane instruments is not the way to do that.  Save them for the potluck AFTER Mass.  Seriously!  

I have been in numerous "liturgies" where various profane instruments were used.  Have you?  I was in the choir loft at St. Vibiana's Cathedral in Los Angeles when Pope John Paul II came into the sanctuary, and there were 4 Philharmonic Brass players blasting immediately behind me.  Have you been there?  Have you performed with the orchestra for Mozart's Requiem Mass? Just because brass (trumpets are brass instruments BTW) are played at Mass doesn't mean they're appropriate.  I have friends who play trumpet or harp or violin or flute or guitar or piano or drums or whatever at Mass (not masses I go to) and they even get PAID for it, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate.  

There may be very FEW exceptions, and the consecration of 4 bishops like in 1988 could be one of them.  The problem is, we are in the middle of proof positive that some people will run wild with such an idea.  When there is money to burn and egos to inflate, the rules tend to go out the window.

In previous centuries, symphony orchestras were used at Mass, and that is the context of some of the great Missa compositions in classical music.  But we know better now, that the Mass is not the proper setting for such PERFORMANCES.  

Because, as I said above, and I'll say it again, the music sung at Mass is not a performance for entertainment.  


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Neil - you are quick to judge.  And, the flute did not create the NO.

I think that there is a legitimate argument for a woodwind in comparison to today's electrified(air) organ.  I find it unlikely that there are in use any hand pumped trad mass organs.  

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I appreciate your reasoned response, Graham.  There may be some limited exceptions to the rule, but in today's culture the abuses are teeming by the millions, just waiting for their chance to come in and take over.  

While Pope St. Pius X did enormous good for music at Mass, we can hardly blame him for not knowing about Rock 'n Roll, Doo-Wap, Punk and Bob Dylan.  He may have been prescient in many things but there's hardly any way he could have anticipated what we have wall-to-wall in this age regarding music.

I suspect he may have enjoyed Irish Folk music, for example, but he would never have approved it for use during Mass.  People today don't generally have that discernment.  

When you have one recorder or flute playing at one Mass, and everyone loves it, suddenly woodwinds will become what is expected at Mass.  It's possible for a flute to be played well, especially as a duet with the organ or accompanying the choir.  But we live in the age of NO RESTRAINT, and that means that "flute" to one person will mean something very different to another person.  It would take enormous discernment on the part of the priest, and today, we can easily see where priests are under all manner of pressure to "update" and to "get out of the dark ages."  My answer to these myriad problems is simply stick with the human voice.  Problem solved.  

From my perspective, the proper use of the human voice is not a difficult thing to achieve.  There are a few principles that must be observed, and all too often, choirs do not observe them, out of ignorance or whatever.  I'd like to think they are capable of recognizing beauty when they hear it.  

The biggest problem is actually twofold, and these two things are so interrelated that they cannot be separated.  We can talk about them with distinction but we cannot practice them separately.  They are SUSTAINED SUPPORT and PROPER TONE.  Any singer(s) who understand these principles and recognizes their importance and applies the practice of improving them at all times is already on the road to beautiful singing.  

After that, there is SOFT ON THE ENDS, because it sounds really bad when you have just one voice that remains loud or even gets louder, at the ends of phrases, especially in Gregorian Chant.  

After that, and when those things are well under way in practice, then it's time to learn about DYNAMICS.  Pay attention to the crescendos and diminuendos printed on the sheet music.   If it is written there, you can hardly go wrong by exaggerating the dynamics.  You will always go wrong by ignoring them.  

And no, PG, I'm not thumbing your posts.  


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Nothing against woodwinds or strings, but they're not appropriate instruments for Mass.  

Brass, percussion (includes piano), strings (yes, violins and harps), and even electronincs like synthesizers, are all profane instruments.  

The preferred instrument is the human voice, and secondarily there is the pipe organ.

Organ can accompany the voice(s), but for most Mass music, the voice should be a cappella.  The term, "a cappella," is the standard term for voice without any instrumental accompaniment, but most instructively, it literally means, "in the manner of the chapel," because the human voice alone, without any organ or other instrument is what the manner of the chapel is, and has been since the earliest Catholic Church.  In the catacombs, Chant was sung, without instrumental parts played, and the tradition grew from there.  All the monasteries of renown have had daily chanting without any organ droning in the background.  Gregorian Chant is always appropriately sung WITHOUT any organ.  

If anyone has an objection that the voices don't stay in tune without the organ, there are two proofs of the fallacy of that claim:

1)  The singers stay in tune when they learn how to make the appropriate TONE QUALITY that is just right for Mass.  E.g., if a singer sounds like 'this is an opera' the tone quality is WRONG for Mass.  The music sung at Mass is not a performance for entertainment.

2)  When you listen to a recording of one or more voices singing Gregorian Chant with an organ accompaniment, and the singer and/or producer believe(s) that the organ keeps the singer(s) in tune, listen for pitches carefully, and you will always find that the singer with the problem is constantly a shade flat, lower than the organ, which is an ugly sound ALL THE TIME, so the organ isn't doing anything useful but merely provides ongoing DISSONANCE.  This problem is generally also a problem of a tin ear in the singer, who can't tell that he is singing flat compared to the organ.  In such cases, they may believe that the organ is 'necessary' otherwise the singer would just keep sinking like a leaky boat, but in fact, the singer is at BEST in a non-stop process of 'catching up to the organ' because the organ is always SHARP in comparison.  So the problem is in the singer, not the organ.


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Well, Mozart and Hayden, to name two, would be shocked to hear this.  

Re: trumpets

Someone pointed out to me why they used trumpets at the 1988 consecrations (for example) -- the reason is simple. Bishops are literally princes of the Church. At a prince's installation, one would expect such pomp.

And indeed, for royal occasions you can't replace trumpet-like brass instruments.

Re: violins

On one or two occasions in my seminary days, we had an organ/violin piece, each played by a master of the instrument. Some of you might know Fr. Scott Gardner and Fr. Thomas Hufford. Well, they were seminarians once! It was absolutely beautiful and certainly added to the general festivities of the great Liturgical feast we were celebrating.