Author Topic: Why does Tolkien get a pass but not Harry Potter? (Read 19564 times)

cathman7 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 18, 2016, 08:26:59 PM »

Tolkien gets a "pass" because he was a Catholic and a scholar and his stories reflected to varying degrees his learning and his Catholic faith.

Why is this even a question?

Croixalist · « **Reply #6 on:** May 18, 2016, 08:46:15 PM »

Tolkien believed his own mother was a Catholic martyr for having been shunned by her own family after insisting on raising her children in the Church. I don't question the man's faith. The problem I do have is that he left the door open to interpretation in his works. He was so thorough in his world building and pseudo-celtic myth making that he neglected to strongly tie the story back to Christianity. Yes there are many archetypes that could be compared to Heavenly ones, but he never felt it necessary to firmly assert them as such.

Now as a result, generations of dead souls and dead imaginations have used his books as the foundation for the godless "medieval fantasy" genre. At this point, I don't see any way he could try to reclaim it as Catholic even if he were still alive. The ants didn't just settle for a few sandwiches, they went and took the whole picnic table! I like him as a person, but what happened to his legacy should be a warning to any creative Catholic writer who wants to put themselves out there: make sure that your work calls attention to and nurtures the Catholic faith instead of distracting from it!

Disputaciones · « **Reply #7 on:** May 18, 2016, 11:13:01 PM »

Quote from: Catholic Samurai

The LotR characters derive their powers from the creator being (forgot his name). They're natural gifts from God essentially.

Where is this "God figure" mentioned? In what book?

I saw all the Peter Jackson movies and there is not the slightest hint at any sort of "God figure" anywhere.

Quote from: Catholic Samurai

I don't think the presence of magic in a story is necessarily problematic,

This goes without saying and is not what I'm saying.

The point is that some of the "good guys" use magic and magic, spells, witchcraft etc. is all around portrayed as a good and normal thing. Gandalf himself is a WIZARD for crying out loud.

I remember the scene in the Fellowship of the Ring where Gandalf is about to fight the Balrog and Gandalf says "I am a servant of the secret fire, wielder of the flame of Anor."

Quote from: Catholic Samurai

but a person's faith is almost always professed in their art, and Tolkien and Rowling clearly express in their respective stories spiritual views diametrically opposed to eachother.

And what spiritual views are expressed in Tolkien's books?

TKGS · « **Reply #8 on:** May 19, 2016, 06:41:23 AM »

Quote from: Gag Hogan Ilium

Tolkien was a Freemason so I don't like either of them

Mr. Tolkien was not a Freemason. This is pure calumny.

Quote from: Disputaciones

I saw all the Peter Jackson movies and there is not the slightest hint at any sort of "God figure" anywhere.

My goodness. This is, perhaps, the most ignorant statement every to be posted on CathInfo and, perhaps, the entire internet. Peter Jackson's movie is not Tolkien's work, it is Peter Jackson's story that he bases on the books.

Read The Hobbit and then read The Lord of the Rings trilogy and, if you are still unable to understand what is being said here then you can simply put yourself in the "blooming idiot" category of human being. As it is now, your comment above merely puts you in the "idiot" category.

AnonymousCatholic · « **Reply #9 on:** May 19, 2016, 07:54:34 AM »

Quote from: Disputaciones

Quote from: Catholic Samurai
The LotR characters derive their powers from the creator being (forgot his name). They're natural gifts from God essentially.

Where is this "God figure" mentioned? In what book?

I saw all the Peter Jackson movies and there is not the slightest hint at any sort of "God figure" anywhere.

Quote from: Catholic Samurai
I don't think the presence of magic in a story is necessarily problematic,

This goes without saying and is not what I'm saying.

The point is that some of the "good guys" use magic and magic, spells, witchcraft etc. is all around portrayed as a good and normal thing. Gandalf himself is a WIZARD for crying out loud.

I remember the scene in the Fellowship of the Ring where Gandalf is about to fight the Balrog and Gandalf says "I am a servant of the secret fire, wielder of the flame of Anor."

Quote from: Catholic Samurai
but a person's faith is almost always professed in their art, and Tolkien and Rowling clearly express in their respective stories spiritual views diametrically opposed to eachother.

And what spiritual views are expressed in Tolkien's books?

The God figure is mentioned in the Silmarillion. Iluvatar I believe. The films are hardly true to the books save in certain parts. Most of it is completely different from the book.

As for the protagonists using magic, look at it as a priest using his Church bound authority rather than a witch using magic.

The spirituality in Tolkiens book is quite obvious once you get the underlying story of the series. Basically Sauron and the forces of darkness are worshipers of the Lucifer of the series (and the other books regarding his history say as much). There are many parallels to Catholicism as well and Tolkien says as much in one of his letters (I forget to whom) and many pieces of the LOTR series seems to be interpretations of the bible. For example they call Sauron the "faithless and accursed". This is because he worships Morgoth (Satan) instead of Iluvatar (God).

And if no one mentioned it yet, in Rowlings books (which I unfortunately read) they draw obvious parallels to actual witch craft. The whole thing about muttering the proper words and using a wand. An unknown source for the powers they all use. The spells are all in a language unknown to any. Its basically a way to get little girls and boys to idolize occultism.

Quote

I saw all the Peter Jackson movies and there is not the slightest hint at any sort of "God figure" anywhere.

Have you seen many film adaptations of books?