Author Topic: Why does Tolkien get a pass but not Harry Potter? (Read 19574 times)

Croixalist · « **Reply #10 on:** May 19, 2016, 11:34:56 AM »

Quote from: TKGS

Read The Hobbit and then read The Lord of the Rings trilogy and, if you are still unable to understand what is being said here then you can simply put yourself in the "blooming idiot" category of human being. As it is now, your comment above merely puts you in the "idiot" category.

Not so fast. It's the majority of people who read them and popularized them who twisted it into the neo-pagan nightmare it is today. Tolkien probably assumed that people wouldn't be so quick to shed their Christian sensibilities, or historical awareness for that matter.

What kills me is that if he had lived to see how much his work was used for pagan escapist fantasy like D&D and virtually every other piece of juvenile entertainment out there today, he would be horrified. I know he never intended for this to happen, I just wish he had done something along the lines of C.S. Lewis and made his stories inseparable from Catholic culture. Hindsight is 20/20 but ugh, look at all the bastard children coming from LOTR!

TKGS · « **Reply #11 on:** May 19, 2016, 11:55:05 AM »

Quote from: Croixalist

Quote from: TKGS
Read The Hobbit and then read The Lord of the Rings trilogy and, if you are still unable to understand what is being said here then you can simply put yourself in the "blooming idiot" category of human being. As it is now, your comment above merely puts you in the "idiot" category.

Not so fast. It's the majority of people who read them and popularized them who twisted it into the neo-pagan nightmare it is today. Tolkien probably assumed that people wouldn't be so quick to shed their Christian sensibilities, or historical awareness for that matter.

I wasn't talking to "the majority of people". I was talking to a person who claims to be a traditional Catholic. If he is a traditional Catholic, then this shouldn't be a problem. AND, he most definitely should read the books.

I have never read a book and seen the movie based on the book that was 100% faithful to the written work. I freely admit that in some of those cases, I enjoyed the movie more than the book, but I certainly understood that it didn't matter which genre was subjectively better, they are certainly different works. It is simply ignorant to criticize the author of a book because you saw the movie.

Quote from: Croixalist

What kills me is that if he had lived to see how much his work was used for pagan escapist fantasy like D&D and virtually every other piece of juvenile entertainment out there today, he would be horrified. I know he never intended for this to happen, I just wish he had done something along the lines of C.S. Lewis and made his stories inseparable from Catholic culture. Hindsight is 20/20 but ugh, look at all the bastard children coming from LOTR!

I agree. If J.R.R. Tolkien could have foreseen the "Paganization" of the culture, I don't think he would have given any of his works to a publisher. By all accounts, he wrote the Lord of the Rings and the mythology surrounding the tale for his own personal enjoyment and others encouraged him to publish his works.

Disputaciones · « **Reply #12 on:** May 19, 2016, 12:18:14 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

Quote from: Disputaciones
I saw all the Peter Jackson movies and there is not the slightest hint at any sort of "God figure" anywhere.

My goodness. This is, perhaps, the most ignorant statement every to be posted on CathInfo and, perhaps, the entire internet. Peter Jackson's movie is not Tolkien's work, it is Peter Jackson's story that he bases on the books.

Read The Hobbit and then read The Lord of the Rings trilogy and, if you are still unable to understand what is being said here then you can simply put yourself in the "blooming idiot" category of human being. As it is now, your comment above merely puts you in the "idiot" category.

Hey man. Tolkien first published The Hobbit, then LOTR.

Another poster here said that the "God figure" is mentioned in the Silmarillion, a posthumous work which came out in 1977.

So the 4 main books make no mention at all of this "God figure."

I thought it reasonable that, if this God figure was prevalent in Tolkien's 4 main books (which it turns out it isn't) then Jackson would probably include it in the movies, even though of course movie adaptations change a lot of stuff and details.

I think your response is over the top and unwarranted because there is no such God figure in the 4 main books.

No, i will not read any of these books. I already attempted to do so years ago when i was in the Novus Ordo, when the movies came out and all the hoopla over them was in rage, and i found them boring.

I once heard a critique by an SSPX priest of Tolkien's books and i thought it was good. It was all negative of course. I don't remember the priest's name or the name of the talk either. Perhaps someone here knows.

Disputaciones · « **Reply #13 on:** May 19, 2016, 12:37:57 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

By all accounts, he wrote the Lord of the Rings and the mythology surrounding the tale for his own personal enjoyment

Yeah and i think this is how things should stay: this is all fantasy and people should not try and strain out and emphasize "Catholic" and "Christian" parallels/similarities/etc. in these books because it's a work of fantasy and fiction and not intended as something religious.

This is what bothers me about this whole thing, those who say "Oh you should read these books because they have Catholic meanings and parallels!" The ones in the Novus Ordo are really good at that. They've put Tolkien on a pedestal.

They blow the whole thing out of proportion and make these books quasi-theological works and "must-reads."

They do the same thing with the whole Narnia series.

At the end of the day, what benefit is there in reading these books? What? What contribution do they have towards Catholicism, devotion, piety, spirituality? What advantage do they have over traditional official Catholic works? Writings of Saints and Catechisms?

confederate catholic · « **Reply #14 on:** May 19, 2016, 01:41:31 PM »

the whole Silmarillion in essence is Gnostic, filled with demiurges.

this priest had the stones to call a spade a spade. listen to his commentary and then say LoTR is OK

Part 1

Part 2

http://reginaprophetarum.org/audio/20140128-Fantasy-Tolkien-and-Mystic-Flight-part-2.mp3