Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Was Shakespeare a Catholic?  (Read 3303 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jitpring

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 536
  • Reputation: +247/-0
  • Gender: Male
Was Shakespeare a Catholic?
« on: March 29, 2011, 05:56:09 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • As you know, debate over whether Shakespeare was Catholic has gained a lot of steam in recent years. What do you think? And what's the most convincing article or book you've read about it?

    By the way, who's that ridiculous man who, on pious grounds, discourages the reading of Shakespeare? Is it Gerry Matatics or Robert Sungenis?
    Age, thou art shamed.*
    O shame, where is thy blush?**

    -Shakespeare, Julius Caesar,* Hamlet**


    Offline roscoe

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7611
    • Reputation: +617/-404
    • Gender: Male
    Was Shakespeare a Catholic?
    « Reply #1 on: March 29, 2011, 07:05:37 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • One thing is for sure-- he wasn't Bacon. i believe the rumor is that Bacon was conceived in a tryst by Eliz 1and Liecester and he then ghost wrote Shakespere. There is no credibility in this as the witch could not conceive children.

    My understanding is that Shakespere had Catholic sentiments but one had to be very careful during those times. Some Catholics would make a show of going to Prot church but would remain secretly Roman.

    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Jehanne

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2561
    • Reputation: +459/-11
    • Gender: Male
    Was Shakespeare a Catholic?
    « Reply #2 on: March 29, 2011, 08:07:16 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Difficult to tell.  Shakespeare did not, of course, write everything that has been attributed to him.  Certainly, in Hamlet, he has a clear reference to Purgatory, but he vilified "Joan of Arc" (Saint Jehanne la Pucelle) in another one of his plays, even though she had, two centuries earlier, been fully rehabilitated and reconciled to the Catholic Church after her death.

    Offline Thursday

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 698
    • Reputation: +517/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Was Shakespeare a Catholic?
    « Reply #3 on: April 12, 2011, 07:12:08 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • There is a book called "The True Face of William Shakespeare"

    It supposedly establishes that Shakespeare was indeed the man who wrote the plays and was in fact Catholic and trained by the Jesuit order. Haven't read it yet though.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1904449565/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=httpwwwchanco-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399349&creativeASIN=1904449565

    Offline Hobbledehoy

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3746
    • Reputation: +4806/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Was Shakespeare a Catholic?
    « Reply #4 on: April 12, 2011, 10:55:19 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: roscoe
    My understanding is that Shakespere had Catholic sentiments but one had to be very careful during those times. Some Catholics would make a show of going to Prot church but would remain secretly Roman.


    Years ago, after studying his Second Tetralogy (Richard II, Henry IV, Pt. 1, Henry IV, Pt. 2, and Henry V), I got an impression similar to Roscoe's. Shakespeare seems to have had an intense inner conflict regarding the authority of the Tudors who had politically "overthrown" [for all intents and purposes] the greatest authority known to English Christendom, i. e., the Roman Pontiff, the same authority that had tacitly sanctioned the reign of the Tutors and previous English kings [for, up until the English "Reformation," they were crowned according to the rites of the Roman Pontifical by an Archbishop whose jurisdiction was given by the Pope]. If such a great authority can be so easily demolished, what stability, then, could the authority of the monarchy itself have or claim to have.

    This impression I felt the strongest after I read Richard II, which is ultimately a lyrical and theatrical commentary on the question of how lawful authority is determined and the complex ramifications of a bad ruler and subsequent usurpation.

    He availed himself of tropes, metaphors, allusions and archetypes that hearkened back to English Catholic heritage, but this may have been merely a vestigial cultural marks that the Anglican transmogrification of England could not erase (nor did it ever, just ask the "High-Church" Anglicans). Though I would not readily dismiss these as evidence that he had some Catholic leanings.

    I think he was a very conflicted individual, especially when it came to politics and religion. He may have had a nostalgia, a vitiated certainty, or even a conditional eagerness to embrace the faith, but he never showed in his writings the fruits usually associated with a supernaturally infused faith.
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.


    Offline Lighthouse

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 872
    • Reputation: +580/-27
    • Gender: Male
    Was Shakespeare a Catholic?
    « Reply #5 on: April 23, 2011, 10:41:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thanks for reminding me. If you want to study a Catholic life in Protestant England, you might wish to read about William Byrd, the polyphonic composer.  Apparently he was able to lead a semi-public life without losing his head.

    But every Passiontime I try to listen to his Ave Verum Corpus at least once.  You can hear it at the link below, but I don't think it's a very good rendering.

    Click on the side link to Songs of Silence and then choose the song from the list.

    Easter is soon upon us!

    William Byrd

    Offline Elizabeth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4845
    • Reputation: +2194/-15
    • Gender: Female
    Was Shakespeare a Catholic?
    « Reply #6 on: April 23, 2011, 11:23:36 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Lighthouse, for William Byrd, why not try the Tallis Scholars?

    Offline PartyIsOver221

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1238
    • Reputation: +640/-1
    • Gender: Male
    Was Shakespeare a Catholic?
    « Reply #7 on: April 25, 2011, 03:19:13 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Hobbledehoy
    Quote from: roscoe
    My understanding is that Shakespere had Catholic sentiments but one had to be very careful during those times. Some Catholics would make a show of going to Prot church but would remain secretly Roman.


    Years ago, after studying his Second Tetralogy (Richard II, Henry IV, Pt. 1, Henry IV, Pt. 2, and Henry V), I got an impression similar to Roscoe's. Shakespeare seems to have had an intense inner conflict regarding the authority of the Tudors who had politically "overthrown" [for all intents and purposes] the greatest authority known to English Christendom, i. e., the Roman Pontiff, the same authority that had tacitly sanctioned the reign of the Tutors and previous English kings [for, up until the English "Reformation," they were crowned according to the rites of the Roman Pontifical by an Archbishop whose jurisdiction was given by the Pope]. If such a great authority can be so easily demolished, what stability, then, could the authority of the monarchy itself have or claim to have.

    This impression I felt the strongest after I read Richard II, which is ultimately a lyrical and theatrical commentary on the question of how lawful authority is determined and the complex ramifications of a bad ruler and subsequent usurpation.

    He availed himself of tropes, metaphors, allusions and archetypes that hearkened back to English Catholic heritage, but this may have been merely a vestigial cultural marks that the Anglican transmogrification of England could not erase (nor did it ever, just ask the "High-Church" Anglicans). Though I would not readily dismiss these as evidence that he had some Catholic leanings.

    I think he was a very conflicted individual, especially when it came to politics and religion. He may have had a nostalgia, a vitiated certainty, or even a conditional eagerness to embrace the faith, but he never showed in his writings the fruits usually associated with a supernaturally infused faith.


    Exquisite posting... I really enjoy your posts.


    Offline Lighthouse

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 872
    • Reputation: +580/-27
    • Gender: Male
    Was Shakespeare a Catholic?
    « Reply #8 on: April 25, 2011, 03:35:35 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote

    Exquisite posting... I really enjoy your posts.



    Sorry, I cry foul on "vitiated certainty" and "conditional eagerness".

    These are not oxymorons; they are two adjectives sent out to eagerly vitiate two nouns.  I am passionately hesitant to accept them.

     :judge:

    Offline Hobbledehoy

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3746
    • Reputation: +4806/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Was Shakespeare a Catholic?
    « Reply #9 on: April 25, 2011, 11:54:01 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: PartyIsOver221
    Exquisite posting... I really enjoy your posts.


    Thank you kindly, good sir. Happy Paschaltide to you and yours.

    Quote from: Lighthouse
    Sorry, I cry foul on "vitiated certainty" and "conditional eagerness".

    These are not oxymorons; they are two adjectives sent out to eagerly vitiate two nouns.  I am passionately hesitant to accept them.


    It is a vehement passivity that renders me willingly reluctant to deny assent to this judgment.

     :jester:

    Uh, speaking about William Byrd, someone sent me this link as a Paschal greeting e-card:



    Happy Paschaltide!
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

    Offline herbert

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 578
    • Reputation: +114/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Was Shakespeare a Catholic?
    « Reply #10 on: April 27, 2011, 07:59:27 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • i ehard that shakepare was really edward de vere, and that de vere was a catholic.


    Offline Thursday

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 698
    • Reputation: +517/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Was Shakespeare a Catholic?
    « Reply #11 on: April 27, 2011, 07:07:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The Sir Francis Bacon Theory started with Mark Twain's autobiography, Is Shakespeare dead?

    You can find it online at project guttenberg.

    It's covered in this docuмentary The Secret History of America's Beginnings part 14 and 15


    The folks who made this docuмentary are very ant-Catholic and really only present one side of the argument. There was a good BBC program on Shakespeare's life. His father had a glove shop and they were far from poor. He goes into a lot of detail about gloves in his plays, detail the average person wouldn't know unless there father had a glove shop.

    I've ordered The True Face of William ShakesPeare, will summarize when I get a chance to read it.

    Offline herbert

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 578
    • Reputation: +114/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Was Shakespeare a Catholic?
    « Reply #12 on: April 28, 2011, 07:51:36 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • bacon is unclean. it's de vere.