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Author Topic: The Medieval Enviromentalism of J.R.R Tolkien  (Read 11814 times)

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Offline Isaac C Bishop

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The Medieval Enviromentalism of J.R.R Tolkien
« on: December 30, 2024, 08:47:57 AM »
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    • The Medieval Environmentalism of J.R.R Tolkien by Jeb Smith

    https://bibliotecanatalie.com/home/f/the-medieval-environmentalism-of-jrr-tolkien

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    Jeb Smith is the author of Missing Monarchy: Correcting Misconceptions About The Middle Ages, Medieval Kingship, Democracy, And Liberty.

    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: The Medieval Enviromentalism of J.R.R Tolkien
    « Reply #1 on: December 30, 2024, 04:59:05 PM »
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    • Great stuff. Thanks for sharing.
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: The Medieval Enviromentalism of J.R.R Tolkien
    « Reply #2 on: December 30, 2024, 10:57:17 PM »
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    • This has to be one of the worst articles I've seen posted on this website in a while. Environmentalism is leftism, pure and simple. Environmentalists are "watermelons" -- green on the outside, red on the inside. People in the middle ages were absolutely not environmentalists.

    That's just for starters, but there are many statements in the article that are scandalous.


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    the Christian faith it might be said is green.


    This sounds like something Bergoglio would say. Probably he has.


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    The clergy during the Middle Ages were outlawed from hunting by the Church, seeing it as immoral.


    This statement is not only false, it is abhorrent. Yes, clergy were banned from hunting, but not because hunting is immoral. If it were immoral, everybody would be banned from hunting, not just clergy. And if hunting were immoral, we would all have to be vegetarians by the same principle. But that is false and pagan. Clergy were banned from hunting because it was considered a worldly form of entertainment that was not suited to the dignity of the clerical state. It was not because of any belief against hunting.


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    Francis believed that if animals caused people pain or distress, it was only because God was using this as a teaching moment. For example, when mice became a nuisance, he would not hinder them because he believed humanity should not impose on wild animals.



    This is false and ridiculous. No Catholic has ever believed it is wrong to kill mice that are vermin and a pest. Including St. Francis. The left has tried to co-opt St. Francis of Assisi by turning him into a communist and an eco-fanatic.


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    Those perspectives understand nature as matter originating from randomness and chaos. Christians and traditionalists G. K. Chesterton, C. S. Lewis, and J.R.R Tolkien still held



    What?! CS Lewis was a protestant. He was absolutely not a traditionalist.


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    Think of the Eucharist; it’s merely a wafer in its composition, but Tolkien believed it becomes the flesh of Jesus.

    Yet it is still just an ordinary wafer but beyond is wonder.


    This is openly heretical. I think I've said enough to make my point now.
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    Offline Isaac C Bishop

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    Re: The Medieval Enviromentalism of J.R.R Tolkien
    « Reply #3 on: January 02, 2025, 08:33:13 AM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on December 30, 2024, 10:57:17 PM
    This has to be one of the worst articles I've seen posted on this website in a while. Environmentalism is leftism, pure and simple. Environmentalists are "watermelons" -- green on the outside, red on the inside. People in the middle ages were absolutely not environmentalists.

    That's just for starters, but there are many statements in the article that are scandalous.



    This sounds like something Bergoglio would say. Probably he has.



    This statement is not only false, it is abhorrent. Yes, clergy were banned from hunting, but not because hunting is immoral. If it were immoral, everybody would be banned from hunting, not just clergy. And if hunting were immoral, we would all have to be vegetarians by the same principle. But that is false and pagan. Clergy were banned from hunting because it was considered a worldly form of entertainment that was not suited to the dignity of the clerical state. It was not because of any belief against hunting.




    This is false and ridiculous. No Catholic has ever believed it is wrong to kill mice that are vermin and a pest. Including St. Francis. The left has tried to co-opt St. Francis of Assisi by turning him into a communist and an eco-fanatic.




    What?! CS Lewis was a protestant. He was absolutely not a traditionalist.



    This is openly heretical. I think I've said enough to make my point now.

    Thank you for your honest feedback!

    I agree that "Environmentalism" was not the best of terms, but to make it understandable and relatable to a modern secular world, I think it had to be used so that people could identify the content. 

    I disagree with many conservatives over how we should react to the Left. We should not hand over things that they have corrupted. They should not be allowed a monopoly on anything, we should give one inch! It was the Christians/conservatives/libertarians/traditionalists in history and in America (before the cινιℓ ωαr) that were the creation care advocates, something much different from modern secular/political Environmentalism. So Tolkien was no modern "Environmentalism" but rather a creation care advocate. 

    Regarding hunting, it was both because it was seen as immoral and for your reasons. The clergy are held to higher standards; they cannot marry, yet others can. Are you claiming Catholicism says marriage is immoral? The Bible says we should not gamble, that it is unwise, yet it does not outlaw it. 

    I never said Catholics did; I said specifically, Saint Francis did, I say that because....he did! . The source you will want to see for that is here
    St. Francis of Assisi and Nature: Tradition and Innovation in Western Christian Attitudes toward the Environment


    I would argue some Catholics are progressive and modern, and some noncatholics, like Lewis, are traditional.
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    Jeb Smith is the author of Missing Monarchy: Correcting Misconceptions About The Middle Ages, Medieval Kingship, Democracy, And Liberty.
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