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Author Topic: Mel Gibson  (Read 14271 times)

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Offline Emile

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Re: Mel Gibson
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2022, 12:14:58 AM »
The results speak for themselves. The DRB led people to think that it was talking about Mary and not the seed of woman and the on going war between the seed (mankind) and the serpent.


https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.325859/page/187/mode/1up?view=theater

Re: Mel Gibson
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2022, 01:12:18 AM »
Who do you think this "woman" is?  The ARK (which was OVERSHADOWED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT)  was seen and the "woman" does battle with the dragon who made war with her seed. 

Are you one of her seed?






The Apocalypse of St John 11(Revelation)>

[19] And the temple of God was opened in heaven: and the ark of his testament was seen in his temple, and there were lightnings, and voices, and an earthquake, and great hail.




The Apocalypse of St John (Revelation)  Chapter 12
The vision of the woman clothed with the sun and of the great dragon her persecutor.

[1] And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars: [2] And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered. [3] And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads, and ten horns: and on his heads seven diadems: [4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered; that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son. [5] And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne.

[1] "A woman": The church of God. It may also, by allusion, be applied to our blessed Lady. The church is clothed with the sun, that is, with Christ: she hath the moon, that is, the changeable things of the world, under her feet: and the twelve stars with which she is crowned, are the twelve apostles: she is in labour and pain, whilst she brings forth her children, and Christ in them, in the midst of afflictions and persecutions.

[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, that there they should feed her a thousand two hundred sixty days. [7] And there was a great battle in heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels: [8] And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. [9] And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. [10] And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying: Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: because the accuser of our brethren is cast forth, who accused them before our God day and night.

[11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of the testimony, and they loved not their lives unto death. [12] Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you that dwell therein. Woe to the earth, and to the sea, because the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. [13] And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman, who brought forth the man child: [14] And there were given to the woman two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the desert unto her place, where she is nourished for a time and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. [15] And the serpent cast out of his mouth after the woman, water as it were a river; that he might cause her to be carried away by the river.

[16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the river, which the dragon cast out of his mouth. [17] And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. [18] And he stood upon the sand of the sea.



http://www.drbo.org/chapter/73012.htm
You're proving my point. The DRB has misled you to think it is about Mary vs the serpent when it is rather about the sons of Adam throughout all the ages against whom the serpent is at war.


Re: Mel Gibson
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2022, 03:36:18 AM »
You're proving my point. The DRB has misled you to think it is about Mary vs the serpent when it is rather about the sons of Adam throughout all the ages against whom the serpent is at war.
The "sons of Adam" keep the commandments of God and have testimony of Jesus Christ? 

Hardly.   

[17] And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Do "all the sons of Adam" keep the commandments?

Do "all the sons of Adam" have the testimony of Jesus Christ?

No.  Only Christians.

Mary is the Mother of All Christians.

They are her seed.

The womb of Mary is the ARK of the New Covenant.

Like the OT ark Mary was overshadowed by the Holy Ghost.

Her womb is the ARK which brought forth the Word Made Flesh.

The OT ark carried the staff of Moses and the manna of the desert.

Within Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, was the Good Shepherd Himself, and the Manna From Heaven.

That is why St John says the ark of His testament appears and then describes the woman clothed with the sun.

What woman is this who brought forth the "man child to rule all nations"?

Eve?

No.  It's the new Eve.

Mary.

What woman is the dragon was angry with?

Mary.

The evil one is at enmity with "her seed".

"Her seed" is Jesus Christ and all His followers.

This is in perfect congruence with Genesis 3: 15


[15] I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed.



Re: Mel Gibson
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2022, 06:30:16 AM »

"And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly
shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." Genesis 3

Is the devil not actively leading astray and destroying all of mankind? While he chiefly seeks to destroy the obedient sons of Adam he seeks to pervert and destroy the rest too. It is this fuller and more complete picture which you are lacking. I think your use of the DRB and its translation of Genesis 3:15 has led to that.

Re: Mel Gibson
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2022, 08:21:29 AM »
"And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly
shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." Genesis 3

Is the devil not actively leading astray and destroying all of mankind? While he chiefly seeks to destroy the obedient sons of Adam he seeks to pervert and destroy the rest too. It is this fuller and more complete picture which you are lacking. I think your use of the DRB and its translation of Genesis 3:15 has led to that.

It can be confusing, but do you think that St John was missing your fuller and more complete picture of Scripture?



There are two women spoken of in Genesis 3  (Eve and Mary)

and only one woman in Apoc 12  (Mary).

 

Apocolypse 12 clearly references Gen 3:

[15] I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed.


That's verbetim from Gen 3 right?  St John knew Scripture.



Is St John talking about enmities with Eve and her seed (the sons of Adam) or Mary and her seed (Christians) ?

Let's take a closer look.



Was there really "enmity" between the serpent and Eve or did Eve actually join the serpent's team?

St John gives the answer in the passage from Apoc 12:


[9] And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world

Satan seduced Eve and the whole world.  No war going on there.  No enmity.



So who does Satan battle?  Have enmity with?


St John tells us Satan is angry with the woman who gives birth to a man child who was to rule all nations:


[5] And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne.

Would that be Eve or Mary?  Mary.

[17] And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Would that woman be Eve or Mary?

He already seduced Eve and her descendants.  They are on the same team.  No enmity or battle going on with them.

Clearly that is Mary.




Satan shows his enmity for her:

[13] And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman, who brought forth the man child

So after Mary gives birth to the man child (Jesus) he goes to make war with her and the rest of her seed (Christians).



Satan wasn't angry with Eve and her seed.

He was angry with Mary and made war with her seed.

Mary crushes Satan's head by her seed---Jesus!



According to Haydock, either translation leads to the same conclusion:

[15] "She shall crush": Ipsa, the woman; so divers of the fathers read this place, conformably to the Latin: others read it ipsum, viz., the seed.

The sense is the same: for it is by her seed, Jesus Christ, that the woman crushes the serpent's head.---Haydock