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Author Topic: In the Cell Next to Bishop Williamson  (Read 6007 times)

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Offline DecemRationis

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In the Cell Next to Bishop Williamson
« on: July 09, 2010, 09:25:32 AM »
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  • In the Cell Next to Bishop Williamson


                                             Pilate saith to him: What is truth? And when he said this,
                                             he went out again to the Jєωs, and saith to them:
                                             I find no cause in him.


    I was sitting in Manhattan, sipping coffee, looking out on Broadway,
                   and I thought, “It couldn’t be possible.”  

    But there it was, like a piece of loose foil, suddenly crumpled.
    Yet still the light flashed, the eyes narrowed. Still.

    St. Augustine faced a simplicity: “am I ready to die today?”
                   They scowl with complications.

    A fingered form under five gloves, one on top of the other,
    Reached into my pocket. Like the memory of a hand. Like a hand’s shadow.

    If it smelled, faintly, like a woman, it was because my mind was still alive;
                   but it was no woman.

    When I passed St. Patrick’s Cathedral I thought of you, brother, and the lightning
           that shivered you like the old oak you are.

    Then I felt the hands on each arm, the feet leave the ground, and the tumble
                   into darkness.

    And now I want to scribble, and pass you the note on the gum wrapper,
                  as we wait in the silence after Pilate’s question:

    Who are these inquisitors? How did they come to own our answers?

    [code]
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.


    Offline Dulcamara

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    In the Cell Next to Bishop Williamson
    « Reply #1 on: July 09, 2010, 10:43:07 AM »
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  • Huh?  :confused1: I couldn't make any sense out of this...
    I renounce any and all of my former views against what the Church through Pope Leo XIII said, "This, then, is the teaching of the Catholic Church ...no one of the several forms of government is in itself condemned, inasmuch as none of them contains anythi


    Offline Elizabeth

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    « Reply #2 on: July 09, 2010, 01:31:37 PM »
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  • It is poetry.

     :cheers:

    Offline Dulcamara

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    « Reply #3 on: July 09, 2010, 02:15:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth
    It is poetry.

     :cheers:


     :faint:

    That's what I was afraid of. I'm allergic to modern art, in all of it's forms, and to all of it's principals. (Though not automatically to their authors. Most of them never gave it much thought befor, and have heard nothing else since they were born but how great it is.)

    When you stop and think about it, the whole Novus Ordo thing is basically just the application of those same principals to worship, and to the places and things and ceremonies associated with worship. It's just the modern art revolution in the Church. Modern art is a rejection of reason, sense, order, sanity, (objective) beauty, dignity, reality, truth and so on, in the name of the glories of personal freedom and expression. So, too, the N.O. is just all of those things applied to religion. But if you walk into a church and whatever is happening looks like insane nonsense, you probably won't get anything out of it. Likewise, if I look at a painting or a poem or a dance, or what have you, and it's bizarre, insane, incomprehensible, or anything like that, I also can't get anything out of it. There is only one thing I know, and that is that I am looking at something that is very, very weird.

    I hate to say it but... This poem made me feel like I was  :smoke-pot: (Sorry.)
    I renounce any and all of my former views against what the Church through Pope Leo XIII said, "This, then, is the teaching of the Catholic Church ...no one of the several forms of government is in itself condemned, inasmuch as none of them contains anythi

    Offline DecemRationis

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    « Reply #4 on: July 09, 2010, 02:31:46 PM »
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  • Quote
    Elizabeth said:

    It is poetry.

    Dulcamara said:

    That's what I was afraid of.


    Huh? I can't make any sense out of that. :)

    But hey, Dulcamara, it's ok. Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

    I prefer Elizabeth's. :)

    DR

    PS - How do you do a simple smiley? I see a horde of beasties to my left, but no simple smiley.

    And Dulcamara: I'll post a traditional Shakespearean sonnet for ya, dedicated to St. Edmund.

    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.


    Offline Dulcamara

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    « Reply #5 on: July 09, 2010, 05:19:05 PM »
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  • Quote from: DecemRationis
    Quote
    Elizabeth said:

    It is poetry.

    Dulcamara said:

    That's what I was afraid of.


    Huh? I can't make any sense out of that. :)



    I was trying not to say it outright, for charity's sake. It wasn't you I meant to attack, but the principals and ideas behind modern art.

    Tell me seriously... what benefit do you suppose all of us can get from these kinds of poems, if when we read them, we haven't got the vaguest idea what you were trying to say (if anything)? If you write this kind of thing, you may think you're very clever, but if no one else knows what you mean... okay, you've fooled us. Now what? We don't know what you mean. If we don't know, then what have you really imparted to us in sharing it, except to prove that you can write something that no one will be able to decipher?

    I'm not saying not to share your work. I'm just hoping you'll stop and think about WHAT you're sharing... which won't be very much if nobody can understand what you're saying at all.

    It is written in the Bible of speaking in tongues, that one or two men, or a few at a time should only be allowed to speak, and that it should be interpreted, so that it is known what is being spoken. Why? Because if one of the apostles were speaking Japanese to the Greeks, they would have thought him a fool, and no one would have been edified at all. And the gift of tongues were not given to men to glorify (or even amuse) the men, but to edify their fellow men.

    Having talent and using it for modern art, would be like the apostles going to preach to the Greeks in Japanese, without interpreting. Hooray for Japanese, but no one would have been edified, because everyone would just think they were drunken lunatics, because no one would have been able to understand them. Their preaching and all of their God-given wisdom, would have been in vain.

    The arts are magnificent lights of God given to men, that they may act in the image of the Creator and Author of all. With the arts, men are able to edify, instruct, uplift, share knowledge and experience, and many other good things, in ADDITION to... simply delighting the senses, such as colors by themselves can do.

    But ask yourself honestly... is a man's soul uplifted more by a mess of colors on the canvas, or by the Sistine chapel? Or even by the Pieta, for that matter, which is blank marble, but for it's form a most excellent topic of holy contemplation? If I want to contemplate the colors by themselves, I can find them on far fairer canvasses in the fields, called the flowers. I cannot, however, go back in time and behold Mary mourning her Divine Son. But because of the gift of God of talents to the artists throughout history, I can see that, and contemplate it, which raises my soul to God.

    Please don't misunderstand. I'm not trying to attack you personally. But the overthrowing of every sane, ordered, useful and beautiful quality of the God-given arts, is simply diabolical. I'm not saying YOU are. I'm saying IT is. You and I can't help the world we were born into, and that this poison is so widespread that just being born into it is enough for it to seep between one's ears. I dare say ALL of us probably believed in it to some extent, at one point or another. (Some people will never give it up.) I only hope that people, or at the very least GOD'S people, will realize what's going on, and stop going along with it.

    The errors of the principals behind modern art:

    1) ALL men are artists, and everything is art. A denial of the reality of God as the Master of all, giving talents only to those whom He will, because the pride of man will not suffer the possibility that THEY did not get them.

    2) The condemnation of every trait or characteristic of God and His creation, and the praise of every trait or characteristic that is diabolical. So we see the condemnation of that which is orderly, beautiful, realistic, of truth, of virtue, of holiness, edifying, teaching, beneficial to the mind and soul of man... and the praise of disorder, disharmony, senselessness, lies, darkness, chaos, despair, evils, vices, and so forth.

    These two principals can be absolutely seen in every kind of modern art, from the erotic and evilly sensual world of modern dance, to the screaming and whining voices of modern music, and from the messes of paint on a canvass to the devilish volumes of lust and errors known as modern fiction, ALL praised by modern man as better than what came before, as more "equal" and more "free" ... but all perfectly in line with diabolical traits, not godly ones.

    By this diabolical revolution, the devil has rendered centuries of true talents that were given by God to men, for the benefit of men, utterly fruitless. Men are NOT painting pictures like The Last Supper, because it is much more popular (and easier) to finger-paint or simply throw paint onto a canvas, and call it art. Men are NOT singing or writing songs like the Te Deum or even composing music like Beethoven, but screaming like the devils of hell, and blasting away on their electric guitars with nothing but sheer noise. Men are not making poems like the Divine Comedy, but poems that you could compose by taking words on scraps of paper, and dumping them out on the table. Men are not writing books like St Thomas Aquinas, or even good fiction that presents good and truths to the benefit of the reader, but they're turning out veritable word porn and volume after volume rife with errors and blasphemy.

    THAT is modern art. And by it, even the best Catholic will do no good in the world by their art, even if the colors they smear are the prettiest pastels rather than blacks and blood reds, even if the noise they call music mentions God (often very irreverently, though not with the INTENTION of being), even if their poetry uses no sinful words, and even if their books have no bad guys at all, if instead all they have written is total nonsense with no meaning or bearing in life whatsoever. Fruit for God: 0. (Give or take the few exceptions you can probably count on one hand.)

    Modern art is, in short, like convincing all of the people in the world simultaneously that every man knows how to farm like an expert, and that it is much more creative to sew seeds that don't ever grow, on the premise that then everyone really WILL be a farmer, and no one will have to work at it at all! Well, you may APPEAR to make every man a farmer that way, and you may get everyone to go along with it... but the result? The whole world will starve, because the few men who really DID know how to farm, fell for it along with the millions of wannabes, and so the few that really could produce food, didn't produce any, either. It is an impeccable strategy to dam up all real good that possibly COULD have been done by real artists doing real art. Now we have everyone in the world convinced that everyone is an artist, and almost all of us are producing utter nonsense, which is to no avail, while virtually NO ONE is producing real art.

    If that doesn't smack of the devil, nothing does.

    It's a cheat, plain and simple. And a diabolical cheat at that. Which is why it is my sincere hope that neither you, nor anyone else continues to fall for it. Just ask yourself... Can we serve God with nonsense? Is our way better, if it bears no real fruit among our fellow men?

    One way you can do very real good, and you can do it for and in God. The other way, you can please yourself all day, every day... but you will not be doing the first thing for your fellow man. But if we bear no fruit by our talents, but please ourselves only... how are we serving God?


    (I expect the tomatoes to fly now I've brought all of this up again, but... it is what it is. If you have genuine talents, why opt to do NO good with them, if you could do SOME good?)
    I renounce any and all of my former views against what the Church through Pope Leo XIII said, "This, then, is the teaching of the Catholic Church ...no one of the several forms of government is in itself condemned, inasmuch as none of them contains anythi

    Offline Elizabeth

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    « Reply #6 on: July 09, 2010, 05:30:54 PM »
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  • Well,  the poem makes sense to me.

     :cheers:

    Offline Emerentiana

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    « Reply #7 on: July 09, 2010, 06:25:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: DecemRationis
    In the Cell Next to Bishop Williamson


                                             Pilate saith to him: What is truth? And when he said this,
                                             he went out again to the Jєωs, and saith to them:
                                             I find no cause in him.


    I was sitting in Manhattan, sipping coffee, looking out on Broadway,
                   and I thought, “It couldn’t be possible.”  

    But there it was, like a piece of loose foil, suddenly crumpled.
    Yet still the light flashed, the eyes narrowed. Still.

    St. Augustine faced a simplicity: “am I ready to die today?”
                   They scowl with complications.

    A fingered form under five gloves, one on top of the other,
    Reached into my pocket. Like the memory of a hand. Like a hand’s shadow.

    If it smelled, faintly, like a woman, it was because my mind was still alive;
                   but it was no woman.

    When I passed St. Patrick’s Cathedral I thought of you, brother, and the lightning
           that shivered you like the old oak you are.

    Then I felt the hands on each arm, the feet leave the ground, and the tumble
                   into darkness.

    And now I want to scribble, and pass you the note on the gum wrapper,
                  as we wait in the silence after Pilate’s question:

    Who are these inquisitors? How did they come to own our answers?

    [code]


    Tell us where you got this......sounds so intriging!


    Offline DecemRationis

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    « Reply #8 on: July 09, 2010, 06:35:44 PM »
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    Tell me seriously... what benefit do you suppose all of us can get from these kinds of poems, if when we read them, we haven't got the vaguest idea what you were trying to say (if anything)? If you write this kind of thing, you may think you're very clever, but if no one else knows what you mean... okay, you've fooled us. Now what? We don't know what you mean. If we don't know, then what have you really imparted to us in sharing it, except to prove that you can write something that no one will be able to decipher?

    I'm not saying not to share your work. I'm just hoping you'll stop and think about WHAT you're sharing... which won't be very much if nobody can understand what you're saying at all.


    Whoa. And wow. Talk about a tempest in a teapot. I'm glad you're in a "charitable" mode.

    Hey, as I said, you don't like it, you don't like it. It's cool.

    On the other hand, be careful about all those "we don't get" and "we don't know what you mean" expressions . . . unless you're the Queen.

    Quote
    It is poetry.

    :cheers:


    Quote
    Well, the poem makes sense to me.

     :cheers:


    Some people may like retaining their independent judgment.

    Quote
    (I expect the tomatoes to fly now I've brought all of this up again, but... it is what it is. If you have genuine talents, why opt to do NO good with them, if you could do SOME good?)


    Nah, no tomatoes. A hand grenade maybe, but no tomatoes. :)

    DR





    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline MaterDominici

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    « Reply #9 on: July 09, 2010, 07:26:32 PM »
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  • Quote from: DecemRationis
    On the other hand, be careful about all those "we don't get" and "we don't know what you mean" expressions . . . unless you're the Queen.

    Quote
    It is poetry.

    :cheers:


    Quote
    Well, the poem makes sense to me.

     :cheers:


    Some people may like retaining their independent judgment.



    Quoting the same person twice doesn't count as "some people".  :smile:
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline DecemRationis

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    « Reply #10 on: July 09, 2010, 08:23:10 PM »
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  • Quote
    Quoting the same person twice doesn't count as "some people".  


    And now, my hole card:

    Quote
    Tell us where you got this......sounds so intriging


    Granted, it's not a rave, but it's not this:

    Quote
    Can we serve God with nonsense?


    There's gotta be a few grades of difference there, at least.  :smile:

    DR
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.


    Offline DecemRationis

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    « Reply #11 on: July 09, 2010, 08:26:54 PM »
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  • Emerentiana,

    Glad you're intrigued.

    Quote
    Tell us where you got this......sounds so intriging


    I'd tell you, but it'd be better coming from Dulci . . . more colorful.

    DR
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline Emerentiana

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    « Reply #12 on: July 09, 2010, 09:01:40 PM »
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  • Oh, I get it!  You wrote it!  Kudos to you!
    I feel so dwarfed by the  knowledge and eloquence of some of the people on here.....you included.  Didnt know that there were that many great Catholic laymen out there! :alcohol:

    Offline MyrnaM

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    « Reply #13 on: July 09, 2010, 10:01:31 PM »
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  • I didn't get it either, but thats okay not everyone gets my art either.  Sometime I paint a picture and know exactly what I painted, a good example, last month I painted what I thought was a really great waterfall, and my son came in and looked at it, and said, mom, pretty nice Indian TP you painted.  

    Now the problem is everytime I look at it, I see a TP.    :roll-laugh1:
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #14 on: July 09, 2010, 10:52:08 PM »
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  • I wish Joseph McKenzie were around here to comment on Art from a Catholic perspective.

    Unfortunately, he become close friends with Fr. Cekada et al, which has not done him any good.

    He had some good quotes from St. Thomas on true art -- which all agree with what Dulcamara was saying about art being OBJECTIVELY beautiful.

    And get this -- beauty is NOT in the eye of the beholder! It is either there or it isn't.

    True, there are some with more perception or refinement in their taste -- but that doesn't mean that beauty is subjective.

    I can appreciate the harmony and/or regularity of rhythm in certain pop music songs, but I also see much more beauty in Gregorian chant and Beethoven. I am perceiving beauty that is there. However, heavy metal has nothing to latch on to -- it is garbage in every way. There is no beauty there -- no consonance, no harmony, etc. It only serves as an expression of angst for those whose souls resonate with the music being played.

    Beauty can be objectively quantified: consonance, harmony, symmetry, truth, etc.

    Art is NOT just a free for all, vomiting forth from the human consciousness, just like Truth isn't projected from within us. (that's subjectivism, and led to Modernism and the current Crisis in the Church which we are all suffering through!)
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