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Author Topic: Hierarchy of Languages  (Read 1910 times)

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Offline Cuthbert

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Hierarchy of Languages
« on: January 25, 2014, 07:38:04 PM »
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  • The following is taken from Feliks Koneczny's On The Plurality of Civilizations published in 1935. It may require to be broken into several posts due to length. "Societies which have been endowed by fate with a faulty system of speech become victims of their own language. But until such time as, in the development of civilization, they outgrow their language, they move from level to level with a sure step, methodically, according to their own system. Then when certain individuals reach out above the capacity of their own tongue, provided they do not drown in the bog of general inferiority and the number of such individuals grows, in the end the matter becomes of general concern and disturbances must result which may produce anarchic conditions in a given civilization. In a society in this position, the flower of the intelligentsia will begin to introduce a foreign language, and bilingualism may prove to be a transitional stage in a general change of language. A newly adopted language carries forward an old civilization." Continued---


    Offline Cuthbert

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    Hierarchy of Languages
    « Reply #1 on: January 25, 2014, 07:48:04 PM »
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  • Continued--"If, for example, the English language were to become the real language of the Chinese or Japanese intelligentsia, and then were to become general, while Chinese and Japanese became dead languages----then (after centuries) Anglo-Saxon culture would not have been extended to the Chinese and Japanese, but the English language would be serving two civilizations, Latin and Chinese, the latter proceeding to a higher level thanks to an English dress. If a sufficient number of people fluent in a well-chose foreign language are not available, stagnation must follow, amid general discontent, and a haphazard grasping at reforms, a confusion of insufficiently thought out experiments, a chaotic state involving the ruin of the old civilization and a retreat back through several generations to the level at which the native language suffices. The process would take the form of a recurring series of upheavals, always followed by another halt. I doubt if there can be revolutions more dangerous than linguistic ones." Continued--.


    Offline Cuthbert

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    Hierarchy of Languages
    « Reply #2 on: January 25, 2014, 08:12:42 PM »
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  • Continued--"The historical importance of languages is thus extreme, and their influence incomparably greater than race (I don't entirely agree with this idea, but be that as it may...) And what was out of place in the case of race is entirely in order in referring to languages: there exists a hierarchy of languages, according to the degree of their capacity for development. Philology will one day list this hierarchy---a list of the stronger and blunter tools of civilization. But this will not be a table, of different civilizations since the same language may serve two civilizations. Civilizations are not formed, established and differentiated according to language. Kinds of civilization do not depend on kinds of language, but levels in all kinds do. Although language is a spiritual element, it does not determine kinds of civilization." End of quote. This is very interesting, it explains a lot, the lower intelligence of negroes as compared to whites is certainly in part due to the primitive negro languages which are excessively concrete failing in abstraction making the proper expression of philosophical ideas impossible. East Asians, though much more intelligent than negroes have not done achieved anything like what the European race has done, as regards technological development. One can't help but conclude that the cuмbersome ideographic writing, requiring the memorization of tens of thousands of miniature drawings to read & write hampers their intellectual development.

    Offline Vladimir

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    Hierarchy of Languages
    « Reply #3 on: January 25, 2014, 09:06:05 PM »
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  •  
    Quote
    This is very interesting, it explains a lot, the lower intelligence of negroes as compared to whites is certainly in part due to the primitive negro languages which are excessively concrete failing in abstraction making the proper expression of philosophical ideas impossible. East Asians, though much more intelligent than negroes have not done achieved anything like what the European race has done, as regards technological development. One can't help but conclude that the cuмbersome ideographic writing, requiring the memorization of tens of thousands of miniature drawings to read & write hampers their intellectual development.


    To avoid derailing this thread, I'm not even going to address the claim that East Asia has not matched European technological development.

    But the fact that you assess the Chinese language as "requiring the memorization of tens of thousands of miniature drawings to read and write" reveals a serious lack of even elementary knowledge regarding the Chinese language. Chinese characters are not, at least in their modern form, "drawings". With a few exceptions, many characters are extremely logically organized into two parts - one giving a hint to the pronunciation of the character, the other giving a clue of its meaning. There is a popular myth that one must "memorize" tens of thousands (or depending on where you heard the rumor, others will give equally arbitrary numbers such as 3,000 or 4,000). The first thing one must do is to define "fluency". What does fluency mean? The ability to find one's way around town? Order a meal at a restaurant? Hold a basic conversation? Read classic works of literature, both ancient and modern?

    If you are going to bag on "negroe languages" (Negroe is a term that describes Americans of African descent - I wasn't aware that they have their own language) for being "too concrete and failing in abstraction making the proper expression of philosophical ideas impossible" - what do you have to say to the fact that there are many philosophical ideas expressed by a single Chinese character that Western translators have never succeeded in translated into their native tongues? Mind you, many of these translators boast a command of the English language and other Western languages, both modern and old, that far surpasses that of most of the educated population.

    Your assessments are based purely on your subjective opinion of what is "cuмbersome". If anything is cuмbersome, it's all the verb and tense conjugations in the Romance languages. Or what about the 20-based counting system in French?

    One more point:

    East Asia can be said to contain 3 (or 4) major countries:

    China - uses exclusively Chinese characters, although there is a Romanized pronunciation system and other non-alphabet pronunciation systems
    Japan - has an alphabet
    Korea - has an alphabet
    Vietnam - uses a Romanized pronunciation system exclusively, although many scholars and intellectuals can still read and write in the ideographic script used up until the mid-20th century.





    Offline Cuthbert

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    « Reply #4 on: January 25, 2014, 11:03:34 PM »
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  • I confess to an unnecessary use of hyperbole in regard to the number of characters one must memorise, nevertheless, the Latin & Cyrillic alphabets are better. A good example of their intrinsic superiority is the great increase in literacy in Turkey after the introduction by Ataturk of the modified (modified meaning the various diacritical marks &c. added to the bare letters) Latin alphabet. I expect the same happened in Vietnam with the introduction of the modified Latin alphabet. It was much easier to learn than the Arabic script which it replaced. The refusal to adopt an alphabet & persisting in the use of ideographs is like a general who insists upon arming his soldiers with matchlocks when Mausers or AK-47's are easily procurable. To quote from Koneczny again-"Learning is gauged by the number of ideograms a man knows, which is of course like an examination in the number of his ideas. But scholars also need long years for this, and the man who goes on learning without pause, who devotes himself to study, is learning the art of reading and writing all his life, trying himself to develop the language further. And so it is that Chinese scholars have no time for true study." As for Japan & Korea, yes they have alphabets, hiragana & katakana in Japan & Hangul I think it is in Korea, but is it not the case that these are combined with ideograms in just about everything except comic books?


    Offline Croix de Fer

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    « Reply #5 on: January 25, 2014, 11:29:44 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cuthbert
    East Asians, though much more intelligent than negroes have not done achieved anything like what the European race has done, as regards technological development. One can't help but conclude that the cuмbersome ideographic writing, requiring the memorization of tens of thousands of miniature drawings to read & write hampers their intellectual development.


    Oh, so that's why the Japanese engineer better cars and electronics than the West; and their students consistently score higher in math and sciences than students in the West? The only reason Japan is not up to par with America in military technology is because they basically signed a treaty with the U.S. after WWII conceding to being a less militarized nation, however, they have every capability.

    I will concede the Chinese and Koreans are generally duplicators, not innovators in terms of technology, but the Chinese are showing signs of their own masterful creations. They recently unveiled a hypersonic missile that can penetrate American defenses. They also have great jets (but it can be argued that the tech for their jets comes from stolen American top secret designs and contributions from the Russians). The Japanese, on the other hand, are great innovators.
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline Cuthbert

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    « Reply #6 on: January 25, 2014, 11:35:20 PM »
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  • Also, negro means anyone belonging to the black races of sub-saharan Africa, the plural is negroes in the Oxford dictionary, I suppose it may well be different in the American spelling. I must digress here, I've never understood the idea that randomly mutilating words, taking the u out of colour, favour &c, taking the second l out of travelling & so on somehow constitutes a "spelling reform". If you're going to reform the spelling go the whole way, spell laugh as "laef" (ae representing the umlauted a of Finnish which is the same sound as the a in laugh), spell right as "rait", spell plough as "plau" & so forth. The Romanic verb conjugations aren't that bad. Having one word mean four or five different things depending on intonation is a good deal more difficult.  

    Offline Cuthbert

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    « Reply #7 on: January 25, 2014, 11:47:11 PM »
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  • Ascent, The Japanese are indeed very capable & industrious people, rather like the Germans in that respect, but they nevertheless started with European ideas, machinery & engineers. They often improve European technology, the Arisaka rifle is an improvement on the Mauser rifle, reducing 7 moving parts to 6, thus making the rifle more reliable, but they did not invent that which they improved, Germans did. If Japan had not been opened to the West during the 19th century they would very likely still be armed with matchlocks & samurai swords as the East Asian mentality does not encourage standing out from the collective, it's well-expressed in the Japanese proverb "the nail that sticks up is the one that gets hammered down". Are there any Chinese-designed weapons to speak of? No, they use Russian weapons, the Kalashnikov, Tokarev, Makarov &c. This goes for much more than armament, it applies to most things. I would agree that the Japanese have overcome this tendency & have begun to closely resemble Europeans in their ability to come up with original ideas, but it all began with the European coming as their teacher so to speak, & now they have grown to adulthood & no longer have need of a teacher.


    Offline Croix de Fer

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    « Reply #8 on: January 26, 2014, 12:15:36 AM »
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  • Point well taken, Cuthbert.

    I do fancy the Tokarev (and AK). The Tokarev is great pistol and simple, reliable design (although it can be argued that part of the design was borrowed from John Browning).  I hope to get a Tokarev one of these days, but the 7.62x25 ammo is so hard to find, so getting one chambered in 9mm is a good option  :smile:
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline Cuthbert

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    « Reply #9 on: January 26, 2014, 12:32:15 AM »
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  • Yes, Ascent, the Tokarev is an excellent pistol, J&G have got a new shipment in of Rumanian Tokarevs, they're selling them for $200 or so, they are however in the original 7,62x25 mm. That might not be so bad though as J&G is offering the ammunition for them as well at about 40 or 50 cents per round, I think it's non-corrosive Sellier & Bellot. If possible get a brace of them & extra magazines. The AK's are so far superior to the Armalites that there's no comparison. The Armalites are infamous for malfunctioning, the Kalashnikov cares not if you drop it into sand or even mud, it just keeps going.