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Author Topic: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?  (Read 35530 times)

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Offline jen51

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Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
« Reply #75 on: September 26, 2022, 06:21:52 PM »
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    • Fr. Ripperger's sermons and conferences have been very helpful to me. I've been listening to his series on modesty this past week and he really fleshes the whole subject out. Not just about clothes but in the way you talk, the proper way to interact with priests, etc etc. He does talk a lot about spiritual warfare, obviously, as he's an exorcist. I don't listen to those conferences/talks because that all just seems over my head. 

    I have a hard time getting spiritual reading in every day so I will turn on his sermons as I'm doing dishes, cooking, folding laundy, etc. 
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    Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one's self unspotted from this world.
    ~James 1:27

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #76 on: September 26, 2022, 06:38:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: jen51 on September 26, 2022, 06:21:52 PM
    Fr. Ripperger's sermons and conferences have been very helpful to me. I've been listening to his series on modesty this past week and he really fleshes the whole subject out. Not just about clothes but in the way you talk, the proper way to interact with priests, etc etc. He does talk a lot about spiritual warfare, obviously, as he's an exorcist. I don't listen to those conferences/talks because that all just seems over my head.

    I have a hard time getting spiritual reading in every day so I will turn on his sermons as I'm doing dishes, cooking, folding laundy, etc.

    He's actually a very solid Thomist ... but this stuff about exorcisms, especially the lay deliverance prayers does not sound right, for the reasons that both Yeti and I have articulated.  At best, there's really no need for these deliverance prayers, and at worst they could invite diabolical retribution for attempting to do it without the requisite autority or competence.
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    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #77 on: September 27, 2022, 08:24:34 AM »
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    • What does everyone think about praying the long St Michael prayer of Leo Xlll? Is that the sole territory of the exorcist, too?
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    Offline PAT317

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #78 on: September 27, 2022, 09:10:24 AM »
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    • Quote from: josefamenendez on September 27, 2022, 08:24:34 AM
    What does everyone think about praying the long St Michael prayer of Leo Xlll? Is that the sole territory of the exorcist, too?

    Good question.  I've wondered that as well. 
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    Offline HolyAngels

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #79 on: September 27, 2022, 12:22:49 PM »
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    • Quote from: josefamenendez on September 27, 2022, 08:24:34 AM
    What does everyone think about praying the long St Michael prayer of Leo Xlll? Is that the sole territory of the exorcist, too?
    Quote from: PAT317 on September 27, 2022, 09:10:24 AM
    Good question.  I've wondered that as well.
    Initially the Laity could pray it. The 1930's Raccolta has a parsed version as an indulgenced prayer (sans the exorcism)

    Fr Ripperger mentioned in one of his talks that today, not even priests can use the original prayer.
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    For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places
    Ephesians 6:12

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #80 on: September 27, 2022, 12:55:20 PM »
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    • Quote from: HolyAngels on September 27, 2022, 12:22:49 PM
    Initially the Laity could pray it. The 1930's Raccolta has a parsed version as an indulgenced prayer (sans the exorcism)

    Fr Ripperger mentioned in one of his talks that today, not even priests can use the original prayer.
    Did Father Ripperger explain why priests can no longer use the long St. Michael's prayer?
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    Offline HolyAngels

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #81 on: September 27, 2022, 01:00:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on September 26, 2022, 06:38:05 PM
    He's actually a very solid Thomist ... but this stuff about exorcisms, especially the lay deliverance prayers does not sound right, for the reasons that both Yeti and I have articulated.  At best, there's really no need for these deliverance prayers, and at worst they could invite diabolical retribution for attempting to do it without the requisite autority or competence.
    Ladislaus, I'm not remotely as determined to promote the praying of these prayers as Yeti and yourself are in denouncing them. 

    The bottom line is the question of authority. And if the Church has defined the authority of laymen to use certain prayers, which they have, then I suspect that lies at the heart of Fr Ripperger's confidence in presenting them for use by the laity. 

    I realize not everyone on the forum here has a copy of Dominion by Fr Ripperger. I do have it and looking through it last night I see that it's not simply his opinion the prayers and question are safe for the laity, but rather it's his conclusion after his research and study of many works. He cites St Thomas, St Alphonsus, and numerous other sources. 

    I'll begin going through the pertinent text and post a synopsis of it. I'll need time though. Ripperger uses many terms I'm not familiar with and I will have to do some homework so I can understand the context and so forth. 

    The Chapter titled Structure of Authority, which is around 70 pages is not easy reading for a lot of us.

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    For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places
    Ephesians 6:12

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #82 on: September 27, 2022, 01:01:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on September 26, 2022, 05:13:59 PM
    Okay, but it says right at the top of that page in huge letters that it is supposed to be said by a priest only. I wasn't including the prayers of the exorcism ceremony, which do in fact address the devil. I was talking about prayers that anyone can say.



    And it addresses this request to God the Father, not to the devil.
    I have Father Ripperger's prayer book for laymen and NONE of the prayers are addressed to the enemy. Many of the prayers are like the Shield of St. Patrick, and others begin "In the name of Jesus." We are not exorcists, which is clearly explained in the intro.

    This is a great example of a straw-man logical fallacy.
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    Offline HolyAngels

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #83 on: September 27, 2022, 01:22:44 PM »
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    • Quote from: Cera on September 27, 2022, 12:55:20 PM
    Did Father Ripperger explain why priests can no longer use the long St. Michael's prayer?
    It has something to do with the docuŠ¼ent  Inde ab Aliquot Annis he mentions in the introduction of his book Deliverance Prayers For The Laity.
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    For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places
    Ephesians 6:12

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #84 on: September 27, 2022, 06:23:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: Cera on September 27, 2022, 01:01:14 PM
    I have Father Ripperger's prayer book for laymen and NONE of the prayers are addressed to the enemy. Many of the prayers are like the Shield of St. Patrick, and others begin "In the name of Jesus." We are not exorcists, which is clearly explained in the intro.

    This is a great example of a straw-man logical fallacy.
    I was responding to a quote from a prayer posted by Holy Angels. If you dispute that the prayer says what Angels said it says, then you are arguing against him, not me.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #85 on: September 27, 2022, 07:06:08 PM »
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    • Quote from: Cera on September 27, 2022, 01:01:14 PM
    I have Father Ripperger's prayer book for laymen and NONE of the prayers are addressed to the enemy. Many of the prayers are like the Shield of St. Patrick, and others begin "In the name of Jesus." We are not exorcists, which is clearly explained in the intro.

    This is a great example of a straw-man logical fallacy.

    Absolute nonsense, the same denial that Holy Angels here exhibited.  I'd go so far as to say this is a lie.  I quoted extensively from Father Ripperger's book, and in many cases, the layman is explicitly addressing the evil sprit.  It's right there in black and white where i cited it.  "I cast you out ...", "I bind you ..."  I cited literally dozens of examples of this from the book.  Obviously no one is praying to the evil spirits, but they are addressing them and issuing commands to them.

    Absolutely unnecessarily, does not good, but has the potential for catastrophic harm.  Somehow Father Ripperger has allowed Prot thinking on the matter to seep into his perspective.

    You may wish to re-read this post:
    https://www.cathinfo.com/art-and-literature-for-catholics/anyone-follow-fr-ripperger-here/msg847567/#msg847567
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    Offline HolyAngels

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #86 on: September 27, 2022, 07:28:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on September 27, 2022, 07:06:08 PM
    Absolute nonsense, the same denial that Holy Angels here exhibited.  I'd go so far as to say this is a lie.  I quoted extensively from Father Ripperger's book, and in many cases, the layman is explicitly addressing the evil sprit.  It's right there in black and white where i cited it.  "I cast you out ...", "I bind you ..."  I cited literally dozens of examples of this from the book.  Obviously no one is praying to the evil spirits, but they are addressing them and issuing commands to them.

    Absolutely unnecessarily, does not good, but has the potential for catastrophic harm.  Somehow Father Ripperger has allowed Prot thinking on the matter to seep into his perspective.

    You may wish to re-read this post:
    https://www.cathinfo.com/art-and-literature-for-catholics/anyone-follow-fr-ripperger-here/msg847567/#msg847567
    Prot thinking ? Please explain why you say that.
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    For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places
    Ephesians 6:12

    Offline HolyAngels

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #87 on: September 27, 2022, 08:01:30 PM »
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    • The difference between Fr Ripperger's catechesis on spiritual warfare (and the prayers to wage it), and the criticism of his detractors, is that he draws from the study of what Church Doctors, Saints, and the Church have determined. 

    His detractors draw from their feelings and emotions. 


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    For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places
    Ephesians 6:12

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #88 on: September 27, 2022, 09:22:36 PM »
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    • Quote from: HolyAngels on September 27, 2022, 08:01:30 PM
    The difference between Fr Ripperger's catechesis on spiritual warfare (and the prayers to wage it), and the criticism of his detractors, is that he draws from the study of what Church Doctors, Saints, and the Church have determined.

    His detractors draw from their feelings and emotions.

    Oh, stop it with this nonsense.  You have yet to demonstrate that any of the criticisms Yeti and I have made regarding the laity directly addressing demons is inconssitent with the teaching of the "Church Doctors, Saints, and the Church."  Quite the opposite, and the only precedent I see for encouraging the laity to utter "Deliverance Prayers" comes from Protestantism.  I feel to see any Catholic Tradition along those lies.

    Directly attempting to "cast out" and "bind" and "expel" demons is incredibly risky business for the laity who do not have the authority of the Church to do so, not even the Minor Order of Exorcist.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #89 on: September 27, 2022, 09:24:37 PM »
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    • Quote from: HolyAngels on September 27, 2022, 07:28:11 PM
    Prot thinking ? Please explain why you say that.

    This notion of laity having the authority to cast out demons (vs. the Catholic Tradition that holds Exorcist to be an Order commissioned by the Church) is entirely Protestant.  You hear the same kind of language from the Protestants, who have this notion regarding a "priesthood of believers," where any layman has this authority.  Nor have I ever seen anywhere in Traditional sources this language of "binding" demons, whereas Prot rhetoric is replete with it.
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