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Author Topic: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?  (Read 36733 times)

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Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2022, 07:46:02 AM »
Traditionally the Church treated exorcisms as a confidential matter not in order to protect the exorcist from demons (since the demons already know who is doing the exorcisms in any parish anyway), but to avoid the type of popular sensationalism and superstition that Ripperger appeals to in order to get attention. A lot of people in the conservative wing of the new church are highly superstitious and think demons cause every natural event that is a little weird, and think everyone is possessed by demons (I think they have invented the word "oppressed" by demons now, to avoid that accusation I just mentioned). So when people like this hear a priest (invalidly ordained) going on and on about demons all the time and how many people are possessed, they eat it with a big spoon.

Traditionally, the Church is always extremely slow to say anyone is possessed by the devil (and I'm not aware of those terms "demonic obsession" or "demonic oppression" being used before Vatican 2, I don't think they're traditional). In fact, the very ceremony of exorcism in the Roman Ritual, a liturgical book, says as much, and says that priests should be very reluctant to believe anyone possessed, and not unless they can either speak many words in a foreign language, reveal hidden or secret information unknown to them, or do things physically impossible. And it implies people should do more than one of those things, or more than once. Ever hear Ripperger tell people this?

The Catholic idea is to assign natural causes to things. Thus, if you see a devil in your imagination as you pick up a book about devils, that is probably your imagination. If have a nightmare, that is your imagination. That is how people should think, and that is what is taught by the true Catholic mystics and teachers of the spiritual life.
Yes, Fr Ripperger has explained numerous times actual possession is rare. Less than 1%. And he indeed explains the conditions you list. So yes, people who follow him are told all of that.

As far as imagining devil's I'm sure there are many who do so. One can become obsessed with worry about them. It's psychological obsession. And it's a crisis that is an opportunity for a demon to attack the person's imagination. And then diabolic obsession is in the equation. Demons can attack us in dreams as well.

Regarding the term diabolic obsession not used prior to VII, it is because it was previously known as Circuмsession. 


Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2022, 07:58:12 AM »
Awesome book. Best book on prayer and it's interconnectedness with spiritual advancement I've ever read. It shows how advancement in the spiritual life or sanctity and advancement in your prayer life coincide, how they're inseparable. Also explains to the reader how to practice mental prayer in different ways at different stages and how to recognize God working in the soul. What is mental prayer?  How do you know when to simplify your mental prayer? How does meditation become contemplation? What is God doing? What do you do? How and why is advancing in the spiritual life of union with Christ and advancing in prayer inseparable or interdependent? This book explains all this and more in a lot of detail especially drawing from the writings of St. John if the Cross and St. Theresa of Avila. Book is 3 or 4 hundred pages. Very exhaustive. Worth it.
Indeed 

The preface itself is worth the price of admission. One example..
"Reading seeks the sweetness of the beatic life, meditation finds it, prayer asks for it, contemplation tastes it."


Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2022, 08:31:33 AM »
Obsession is indeed a traditional form of diabolical influence discussed in spiritual theology.

The traditional divisions of diabolical influence in the manuals are: 1) temptations, 2) obsession (interior or exterior), and 3) possession.

Fr. Antonio Royo Marin, OP summarizes the traditional theology well in his manual Teologia de la Perfeccion Cristiana.

Mgr. Ribet discussed these three divisions more extensively in his 1883 work La mystique divine. Fr. Pierre Thyrée, SJ was the classic author of demonology, witchcraft and occult extraordinary phenomena, especially his De daemoniacis, 1594.

The Catholic Encyclopedia article is good: https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12315a.htm

St. Thomas discusses diabolical influence generally in various places, e.g. ST Ia, q. 114; In II Sent., dist. 8, q. 1. There are also many other saints who discuss these matters with more or less depth.

The 1917 Code was absolutely clear that laity and even unauthorized clergy were forbidden to attempt an exorcism (c. 1151-53).

There is increasing discussion of "generational spirits" among some exorcists or people interested in this topic. I've never spent time looking into it, and it doesn't seem to be mentioned in the traditional manuals as far as I know (but I don't know much at all in this topic). But what I mentioned above is clearly laid out in the traditional sources.
Regarding generational spirits, I'm thinking the fall of Adam and Eve and the resulting original sin would be an example. 

Fr Ripperger goes into it in Dominion  but I've not made it that far yet. It's about a third of the way into the book. It's in the chapter covering Structure of Authority.

Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2022, 08:42:04 AM »
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 I’d be cautious about getting overly involved in his exorcism prayers.  He wrote and adapted most of them.  I think it’s not good for lay people to be praying other than short spiritual warfare prayers as needed under demonic temptation, or as guided by one’s spiritual advisor.  (One amateur exorcist in the resistance movement is enough!) 
Well, he is very clear that Laity do not have the authority to pray prayers of exorcism. He's modified some of them into Deliverance prayers and he does strongly encourage people to talk to a spiritual director before they begin praying them.

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Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2022, 10:18:56 AM »
Did you experience any sort of demonic retaliation after praying the Auxilium Christianorum prayers. I did 3 times not far apart but they subsided. Then I started praying Servite rosary along with the other daily prayers as required by the Society of the Most Sorrowful Mother, the Doloran Fathers aFr Ripperger is part of. Now I've had them come at me again.

The worst was one night I was reaching for my copy of Deliverance Prayers For The Laity and I envisioned the most repulsive image of a demon I've ever seen in a painting or otherwise. It didn't frighten me but I immediately made the sign of the cross and it disappeared.....
This would tell me, not sure why it doesn't tell you, but this would tell me in no uncertain terms that something I'm doing is wrong. If I tied it to Fr. Ripperger as you do, then that would be the immediate end of him for me. 

Some years ago I listened to a few dozen of his sermons / talks and they were good, but, not sure how I would describe them exactly, maybe simply saying that his are sermons given by an indult priest is the best way to describe what you will hear. But thankfully, I did not experience what you did.

 
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Anyhow, his book Dominion has allowed me to figure out what type of demonic influence drives my habitual sins. In my case it's demonic oppression.
We have zero, I repeat, zero reason to delve into the source of our temptations any deeper than to know the devil is tempting us. This is a curiosity that is not only dangerous to delve into, there is something a bit perverse about it as well. What you describe strikes me, or is likened to him writing about us trying to figure out a particular devil's personality, scary for him to even publish such a thing, even though these days I think most would disagree.

What we need to know, and *all* that we need to know, is the best methods to avoid temptation so as to not sin. 

I could go on about the reasons why I stopped listening to him, suffice to say that there is a lot he says that does not need saying, a lot that does not say, and some things he should say that he does not, just the same as many [indult] priests. I used to wonder if the revenue he generates for his order has anything to do with it, but I don't really think that's it. I think he waves both the trad and NO flags - as do all indult priests, and this is what came out in the sermons I heard.