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Author Topic: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?  (Read 9226 times)

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Offline HolyAngels

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Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
« Reply #120 on: September 29, 2022, 04:56:15 PM »
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  • Having read Dominion, I continue to work through "The Introduction to the Science of Mental Health." Much to digest but definitely worth it.
    I think I'll get a copy of Introduction to the Science of Mental Health as well. I should perhaps read it before Dominion.
    For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places
    Ephesians 6:12

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #121 on: September 29, 2022, 05:32:54 PM »
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  • And to assert Fr Ripperger encourages Laity to do so is a blatant lie.

    YOU have been exposed for lying, claiming that there's no direct address to demons in Father Ripperger's book on deliverance prayers.

    Yes, casting out a demon is an EXORCISM.  It is not a MAJOR, but exorcism nonetheless.  When the laity are encouraged to say prayers along the lines of, "I cast you out...", "I expel you..." those are in fact exorcisms.  You have been repeatedly caught lying here while shilling for Ripperger.

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05709a.htm
    Quote
    Exorcism is (1) the act of driving out, or warding off, demons, or evil spirits, from persons, places, or things, which are believed to be possessed or infested by them, or are liable to become victims or instruments of their malice; (2) the means employed for this purpose, especially the solemn and authoritative adjuration of the demon, in the name of God, or any of the higher power in which he is subject.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #122 on: September 29, 2022, 05:40:10 PM »
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  • You may convince those who happen to check out this thread and have never actually held one of his books in their hands or watched any of his talks on video. But those of us who have actually heard him speak and read what he writes on the topic know better.

    Who do you think you are pleasing with these false accusations ? Our Lord or Satan ?

    You are a malicious liar.  I POSTED pictures of pages form his book to back up what I said.  You on the other hand lied about its contents and were exposed.  I have heard him speak many times, and you are an ignorant buffoon ... for there's nothing he's ever said that provides a defense against the allegations that these prayers of his are absolutely without Traditional foundation and are extremely dangerous for the faithful to use.

    I'm still waiting for your citation from Tradition to back up your lie that Father's approach is backed up by the Fathers, Doctors, saints, and theologians.  There isn't any or otherwise you would have produced it by now.

    There are no false accusations here, and it is you who are serving Satan by promoting this garbage.  You should change your forum name to FallenAngels rather than HolyAngels.

    I told you that I would reconsider my problems with these prayers if you could provide a single citation from a reputable pre-Vatican II source, particularly a Pope, a Doctor, a saint, or a Church Fathers.  None has been forthcoming.  Instead you post trash about how angels are immaterial.  Duh, everybody knows that.  That has absolutely nothing to do with Father Ripperger's deliverence prayers.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #123 on: September 29, 2022, 05:43:56 PM »
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  • I think I'll get a copy of Introduction to the Science of Mental Health as well. 

    That might be a worthwhile book for you.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #124 on: September 29, 2022, 05:48:48 PM »
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  • Actually, until Yeti made some good points on this thread, I had actually not had much of an opinion one way or another about Father Ripperger's demonology.  I generally respected him and praised him as a "strong Thomist" (you can look at my posting history here).  There was, however, a nagging feeling that something was "off" about his talks regarding demons and deliverance, etc.

    Then Yeti made the point that there's no Traditional precedent for laity directly addressing demons.  To which you responded that there's no such address in Father Ripperger's book.  So I picked up the book, and sure enough, you were lying.  It's right there in black and white.  For someone who has repeatedly claimed to be so knowledgeable about Father Ripperger's books and his talks, this exposes your as a liar, either about Father Ripperger's books or about your intimate knowledge of them.

    Then I began attempting to research whether there was any Traditional precedent for this, and found quite the opposite, that it's dangerous for laity to directly engage with and address demons.

    Yeti was absolutely right.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #125 on: September 29, 2022, 05:57:32 PM »
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  • If you want to join Pablo's lay exorcist troupe, be my guest.  I in turn will pray to the Angels and Our Blessed Mother and the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and know that the only thing I am capable of casting out is the garbage on Friday mornings.

    You need to be honest with yourself.  You have been snookered by the fact that Father Ripperger offers the Tridentine Mass, and your perception that his approach to exorcism and demonology is Traditional is based on nothing other than Father offering the Tridentine Mass, and his regular citation of St. Thomas and Traditional sources ... on other subjects.  I have yet to see anything on the subject in dispute here.  If Tradition is replete with evidence and proof, as you claim, do not post again promoting this extremely dangerous approach until you have produced at least one sample of this mountain of evidence you claim exists.

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #126 on: September 29, 2022, 06:17:10 PM »
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  • I see this thread is still going.

    One thing that I want to add which really put me off of Chad Ripperger is his constant revelation of what demons tell him through the course of an exorcism. It borders on divination, rather than just pure information for its own sake. There was one such interview on "Fr." Heilman's Grace Force podcast where Ripperger was talking about Satan's power coming to an end soon or something. And it struck me as very questionable, as why should we care what a demon reveals during the course of an exorcism. Yes, I know that the priest can command them to reveal things in the Name of Christ, but I don't believe making a habit of revealing this information to laity is of any benefit and serves to fuel vain curiosity and superstition, rather than true devotion.

    I see a necessity to prove the existence of the demonic and preternatural to today's jaded masses, but it goes beyond that when you're revealing interesting nuggets of information to bolster your trad cred. I get this same impression reading the sensationalized Warren novels or Fr. Martin's book on exorcisms. Sure, it can be read as a form of Catholic entertainment, but it should not be viewed with an end toward puffing up one's knowledge about spiritual warfare and the demonic. And on top of that, shows like Ghost Adventures or Ghost Hunters have done much to destroy a Catholic method of combating the preternatural. When I've watched this stuff in the past, I always point out to my wife that the best thing they could've done is to ignore the sounds, not open doors to these principalities and powers.

    I will repeat, the best means to combat the Devil is to ignore him when temptation arises and pray simple prayers to steady oneself. The method of the Carmelites, specifically St. John of the Cross, pertaining to visions is to ignore them because the source is unknown, the same goes for this type of phenomena.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline HolyAngels

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #127 on: September 29, 2022, 07:30:57 PM »
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  • I see this thread is still going.

    One thing that I want to add which really put me off of Chad Ripperger is his constant revelation of what demons tell him through the course of an exorcism. It borders on divination, rather than just pure information for its own sake. There was one such interview on "Fr." Heilman's Grace Force podcast where Ripperger was talking about Satan's power coming to an end soon or something. And it struck me as very questionable, as why should we care what a demon reveals during the course of an exorcism. Yes, I know that the priest can command them to reveal things in the Name of Christ, but I don't believe making a habit of revealing this information to laity is of any benefit and serves to fuel vain curiosity and superstition, rather than true devotion.

    I see a necessity to prove the existence of the demonic and preternatural to today's jaded masses, but it goes beyond that when you're revealing interesting nuggets of information to bolster your trad cred. I get this same impression reading the sensationalized Warren novels or Fr. Martin's book on exorcisms. Sure, it can be read as a form of Catholic entertainment, but it should not be viewed with an end toward puffing up one's knowledge about spiritual warfare and the demonic. And on top of that, shows like Ghost Adventures or Ghost Hunters have done much to destroy a Catholic method of combating the preternatural. When I've watched this stuff in the past, I always point out to my wife that the best thing they could've done is to ignore the sounds, not open doors to these principalities and powers.

    I will repeat, the best means to combat the Devil is to ignore him when temptation arises and pray simple prayers to steady oneself. The method of the Carmelites, specifically St. John of the Cross, pertaining to visions is to ignore them because the source is unknown, the same goes for this type of phenomena.
    Here is what he says about ignoring demons fwiw.

    "There tends to be two extremes in relation to demons. The first is never paying any attention to them whatsoever, even when they rear their heads. There, is a mindset which is fundamentally flawed that if one simply ignores the demons, they will leave him alone. All this mindset does is create a spiritual blindness in relationship to the activity of the demons, and demons take advantage of the wild ignorance of the individual. This is contrary to the vigilance which St Peter says we are to have which is rooted in the recognition, again as Saint Peter observes, that the devil is like a roaring lion going around seeking someone to devour. He is constantly on the prowl and seeking to cause damage and destruction in the lives of human beings.

    The second extreme consists of the person seeing a demon under every rock, so to speak. The person focuses on trying to find and root out diabolic activity. In this particular approach, the focus shifts from God to demons, and demons are more than happy to have one's attention as long as it is not on God, since their general principle is "anything but God". As the saying goes, "if you look for demons, they will find you".
     
    That seems fairly sound imo. Even if one feels uncomfortable with binding prayers, one should still acknowledge the demon's presence if they sense it, and always keep in mind we are indeed in a spiritual warfare in this world.

    Are binding prayers the only recourse ? No, the short form St Michael prayer, rosary, etc. are effiacious.

    As are binding prayers. They are just more focused, or precise in what they ask. And that is where Authority and the restrictions per the Church enter the equation. Fr Ripperger is adamant in pointing this out, as retaliation is also in the equation.
    For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places
    Ephesians 6:12


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #128 on: September 29, 2022, 09:21:29 PM »
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  • One thing that I want to add which really put me off of Chad Ripperger is his constant revelation of what demons tell him through the course of an exorcism. It borders on divination, rather than just pure information for its own sake. There was one such interview on "Fr." Heilman's Grace Force podcast where Ripperger was talking about Satan's power coming to an end soon or something. And it struck me as very questionable, as why should we care what a demon reveals during the course of an exorcism.


    Yikes! You've got to be kidding me. I looked in the Rituale Romanum to see what the Church actually tells to exorcists, and it's very much the opposite:



    Quote
    5. Let the priest be aware what arts and deceptions the devils use to deceive the exorcist; for they often answer many things deceitfully ...

    14. Let the exorcist not waste time in much conversation or idle and curious questions, especially about future or hidden things that have no relevance to his task; but let him command the unclean spirit to be silent, and only respond to what he is asked; and let him not believe it if the demon pretends to be the soul of a saint, or the dead, or a good angel.

    15. However, there are necessary questions, such as regarding the number and names of the possessing spirits, the time they entered the person, why they did so, and other similar things. But the exorcist must shut down the other idle things, laughter, and irrelevancies of the demon, or despise them entirely. And he must warn the bystanders, who must be very few to begin with, not to pay attention to these things, nor ask the possessed person anything themselves; but rather to pray humbly and perseveringly to God for the possessed person.


    If Fr. Ripperger were a real exorcist, he would certainly have read these things in the section on exorcisms in the Ritual. :facepalm:

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #129 on: September 30, 2022, 01:06:55 AM »
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  • I've objected also to his references to interrogating demons during exorcisms.  If demons are known for anything, it's the fact that they LIE !

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #130 on: September 30, 2022, 01:11:53 AM »
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  • Here is what he says about ignoring demons fwiw.

    "There tends to be two extremes in relation to demons. The first is never paying any attention to them whatsoever, even when they rear their heads. There, is a mindset which is fundamentally flawed that if one simply ignores the demons, they will leave him alone. All this mindset does is create a spiritual blindness in relationship to the activity of the demons, and demons take advantage of the wild ignorance of the individual. This is contrary to the vigilance which St Peter says we are to have which is rooted in the recognition, again as Saint Peter observes, that the devil is like a roaring lion going around seeking someone to devour. He is constantly on the prowl and seeking to cause damage and destruction in the lives of human beings.

    The second extreme consists of the person seeing a demon under every rock, so to speak. The person focuses on trying to find and root out diabolic activity. In this particular approach, the focus shifts from God to demons, and demons are more than happy to have one's attention as long as it is not on God, since their general principle is "anything but God". As the saying goes, "if you look for demons, they will find you".
     
    That seems fairly sound imo. Even if one feels uncomfortable with binding prayers, one should still acknowledge the demon's presence if they sense it, and always keep in mind we are indeed in a spiritual warfare in this world.

    Nah, it's completely unsound ... for two reasons.  Firstly, Father Ripperger clearly falls into the latter extreme.  His talks clearly suggest that demons are involved in nearly everything.  He errs to that extreme.  Demons are responsible for financial problems.  Demons cause hiccups.  They're everywhere ... if you listen to him speak.  Secondly, he's wrong by painting this false dichotomy.  It is not "ignorance" or lack of belief in demonic activity to ignore them.  It is to follow the prudent advice of St. Francis des Sales above, to ignore them so that they do not disturb our peace of soul, simply to have faith in God that they can only do what HE allows them to do.  To appeal to God, Our Lady, and the saints, and to not confront them directly as if we have some kind of power or authority over them ... that is the Catholic balance between these two extremes.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #131 on: September 30, 2022, 01:15:49 AM »
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  • I will repeat, the best means to combat the Devil is to ignore him when temptation arises and pray simple prayers to steady oneself. The method of the Carmelites, specifically St. John of the Cross, pertaining to visions is to ignore them because the source is unknown, the same goes for this type of phenomena.

    THIS^^^.  This is not, as Father Ripperger implies with is false dichotomy (cited by HA above), to be ignorant or to not believe that they are around trying to wreck souls, but, rather, it is to have confidence in God that He is in control.  We turn to God if we are bothered by demons, and do not instead turn to the demons to take them head on and trying to cast them out and expel them, i.e. to exorcise them ourselves.

    Offline HolyAngels

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #132 on: September 30, 2022, 10:51:25 AM »
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  • YOU have been exposed for lying, claiming that there's no direct address to demons in Father Ripperger's book on deliverance prayers.

    Yes, casting out a demon is an EXORCISM.  It is not a MAJOR, but exorcism nonetheless.  When the laity are encouraged to say prayers along the lines of, "I cast you out...", "I expel you..." those are in fact exorcisms.  You have been repeatedly caught lying here while shilling for Ripperger.

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05709a.htm
    Again, I see the concern about the commanding of demons implied by those words. But Ripperger makes it clear we layman aren't expelling demons on our own. If we pray such prayers within the bounds of the limits of authority we do have and under the restrictions we are subject to in that regard, we are not playing exorcist so to speak. Jesus, Mary, St Michael : they are the ones kicking the demon's butts. 

    I've been lax in praying the Auxilium Christianorum prayers the last 10 days or so and I've noticed an increase in temptation, irritability, etc. Whether the demons are coming at me or it's simply due to a decrease in prayer routine in general I can't say. (I have been praying the staple prayers though) But I'm resuming the AC prayers today and if I notice a decrease in temptation and all that will perhaps indicate I should be more diligent in praying the AC prayers moving forward.

    Anyhow, it seems Ripperger promotes the Virtues, Marian devotion, and the like far more than the prayers and question. I don't think he's on a mission to have us replace our traditional prayers and devotions with deliverance prayers and binding prayers. He's just making us aware of them as a means to up our game in spiritual warfare while making it clear we understand the authority and restrictions we need to understand before praying them.
    For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places
    Ephesians 6:12

    Offline HolyAngels

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #133 on: September 30, 2022, 10:55:51 AM »
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  • If you want to join Pablo's lay exorcist troupe, be my guest.  I in turn will pray to the Angels and Our Blessed Mother and the Sacred Heart of Jesus, and know that the only thing I am capable of casting out is the garbage on Friday mornings.

    You need to be honest with yourself.  You have been snookered by the fact that Father Ripperger offers the Tridentine Mass, and your perception that his approach to exorcism and demonology is Traditional is based on nothing other than Father offering the Tridentine Mass, and his regular citation of St. Thomas and Traditional sources ... on other subjects.  I have yet to see anything on the subject in dispute here.  If Tradition is replete with evidence and proof, as you claim, do not post again promoting this extremely dangerous approach until you have produced at least one sample of this mountain of evidence you claim exists.
    I have no idea who Pablo is. 
    For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places
    Ephesians 6:12

    Offline HolyAngels

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    Re: Anyone follow Fr Ripperger here ?
    « Reply #134 on: September 30, 2022, 11:39:29 AM »
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  • None of those screenshots has any bearing whatsoever on the question at hand.  He's merely citing St. Thomas explaining that angels and demons are spiritual and immaterial beings.  What does that have to do with the laity performing exorcisms by casting out demons and directly addressing them?
    Those images were an example and I said they were from the Chapter of Angelology.
    For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places
    Ephesians 6:12