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Author Topic: Ancient Roman Music  (Read 2280 times)

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Offline PereJoseph

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Ancient Roman Music
« on: February 25, 2013, 01:10:29 PM »
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  • I regularly listen to ancient Roman music reconstructed by the group "Synaulia."  They have some pretty wild reconstructions, though I think that the wildness comes from accuracy, including bacchanal ceremonies and the like, including shrieking and other animalistic sounds.  I do not listen to those at all and find them dissonant and incredibly distasteful, not to mention disordered and harmful.  I have a strong distaste for simulated idolatrous ceremonies and find myself uncomfortable even reading pagan mythologies and the like for this reason, though I understand that the Church has historically been more lenient during certain time periods, with memorisations of Roman and Greek poetry being the pedagogical norm for centuries.  Anyway, this strong aversion that I have for any mention of "gods" and so forth causes me to shy away from the reconstructed prayer chants and so forth, which the group also, for scholarly reasons, plays to the accompaniment of historically accurate period instruments.

    That disclaimer being said, I find some of the ancient Roman music to be incredibly edifying, since it makes me think of the time of Our Lord and the natural virtues of the Romans, in which and in whom Our Lord chose the habitation of His Church.  The apostles spoke Latin and Greek for the purposes of the Gospel, but Saint Paul -- an educated man of the time who would have been fluent in Greek -- even quotes Greek literature in some of his epistles.  His epistle to the Galatians mentions that Our Lord became incarnate in "the fullness of time," the predestined and most perfectly opportune moment for the spread of the Gospel and the growth of the Church into a mighty mustard tree heavy in branches and fruit, according to the conditions of the Mediterranean in the first century (Gal. IV, iv-v).  Thus, I believe that the Roman virtues and heritage are in a unique way the heritage of us all, and that their approach to the natural law is uniquely suited for the Kingship of Christ.  Grace builds upon nature and does not oppose it, thus we should not shy from appreciating -- in virtuous moderation -- ordered saecular music, art, architecture, and all the rational activities by which man participates in God's secondary creation.

    What I particularly like about Roman music is its artistic restraint and tasteful simplicity, which characterises, in fact, Roman art, poetry, and the conservatism of the mos maiorum itself.  I think that one of the great faults of the Renaissance and Baroque (in many places) and, most exceptionally, the Rococo periods was precisely this lack of mature restraint.  Chaotic lines and busy compositions, an overabundance of hues and dramatic angles -- where the gravity and nobility enjoined by the simple lines and tasteful, moderate colouration of Roman classical architecture and classical Gothic architecture and epic poetry ?  Thus, this music, to me, is not simply an artistic expression, but the presentation of a vision of the world.  The wilder pagan songs I do not endorse, and I think they are reflective of the effects of Original Sin.  After all, Our Lord did not come as if it were not absolutely morally necessary.  The songs that I do post, however, I believe to be, within debatable limits, an expression of that clarity of thought and purpose that was one of the reasons for which Romanitas was chosen as the mysterious clothing and language of the Mystical Body of Christ.

    Songs :








    Tell me what you think.  I certainly welcome good-hearted disagreement, even strong disagreement.  I really only listen to those three songs, particularly the first two.  I have recently discovered and have been listening again to early French Baroque, which once again I appreciate for its power and simplicity.  I also like the lyre, the mediaeval harp, the , and classical guitar, even the , samisen, oud, and koto.  Perhaps one can discern a common thread between all of these forms.

    Anyway, in these days where it is not the Faith itself that is unknown (at least amongst Traditional Catholics) but precisely how to live it concretely and according to the spirit and mind of the Church, I think that Romanitas is a good place to begin our efforts of restoration, and this music inspires me within that purpose.  Hopefully you will encounter something similar.


    Offline brotherfrancis75

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    Ancient Roman Music
    « Reply #1 on: February 25, 2013, 03:43:22 PM »
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  • Good PereJoseph,

    What strikes me about this music is its great inspirational quality and its value for the pedagogy of our Roman Catholic Restoration.

    Romanitas, or Romanity, is the key to our Catholic education in the 21st Century and 3rd Millennium.  The Ancient Roman musical selections you have discovered provide an excellent introduction to their own historic musical development in the Old Roman Chant of the Middle Ages.  Some fine examples of this are available on the You Tube Channel "Callixtinus":











    While Gregorian Chant forms our contemplative monastic musical tradition, Old Roman Chant forms our more militant Papal musical tradition from the Eternal City of Rome herself.  Both the Ancient Roman music you identify and Old Roman Chant are the music of Roman warriors.  Together Ancient Roman music and Old Roman Chant also form the true foundation for our great tradition of Roman Catholic Classical music that reached its culmination in Bach, Mozart, Brahms and our militant holy warrior Richard Wagner, faithful son-in-law of the great Hungarian priest-composer Fr. Franz Liszt.  (True enough, Bach and Cosima Wagner, the wife of Wagner, were at least nominal Lutherans and Brahms was a Roman Stoic, but their music was supremely Roman Catholic.  What else could it have been?)

    Of course, Early French Baroque also leads into our German Golden Age of Classical music.  And harp music forms a superb complement for our great Roman musical tradition.  But in your selection you have discovered the historic origin of our entire Roman musical tradition, from which all else follows.  In our central music tradition the Ancient Roman music you identify leads directly to Old Roman Chant and Early French Baroque as well as to Bach, Mozart, Brahms and Wagner.  When we see this is the central music tradition of Romanitas, then we can begin to appreciate the true grandeur and incomparable greatness of Romanitas throughout every aspect of our European history and civilization.

    Beginning with the fine musical selections you have made, and that were soon to be lifted up into the divine by the ascendancy of the Roman Rite throughout our Roman world, we can then appreciate that Romanitas, or Romanity, is key to our entire true historic ancestral European identity and the proper Roman Catholic education thereof.

    We are Romans!


    Offline Vladimir

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    Ancient Roman Music
    « Reply #2 on: February 25, 2013, 05:02:31 PM »
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  • The first thing that struck me when listening to those songs was the similarity that they bear to traditional poetry recitation in the Orient accompanied with plucked string instruments, similar to the ones in the above links.

    For example, this recitation of a Song-dynasty lyric poem (followed by a tasteful melodic reconstruction of the original music to which it the text was written):



    I was also reminded of the immortal piece:



    I also agree with your criticism of music from the Baroque and "common practice" era.

    I think the hectic pace of modern life and the complications we face in the Church, as well as in our personal lives, makes the simplicity of "antient" and folk music very appealing (conversely, many may find relief in the contrapunctal complexity of Palestrina or Bach).

    Renaissance and early Baroque lute music is very soothing - the pathos of John Dowland's lacrimae is beyond words.

    I find it interesting that the simplest pentatonic melodies can have a much more immediate and direct effect on the passions compared to more complex music. For example, these folk melodies from the Orient:





    The following song may seem out of place, but the melody is actually a traditional Cantonese folk melody:



    I have yet to hear another piece of music that is so effective in immediately fostering a martial spirit in the listener. This addition of the lyrics used in the film "Once Upon a Time in China" only serves to accentuate this martial affect and does a good job of summarizing traditional expectations of what constituted "manliness" in the traditional Orient.



    I think it is through these old melodies, etc that one can truly see the wisdom in the ancient's attribution of seemingly mystical properties to music on man's soul. Listening to your links, one can see how the ancient Roman music suites the gravity and manliness of the Roman culture. In some of the links I posted, one can trace the despairing melancholy of the refined Chinese poet, the sincerity with which sorrow and joy are expressed with candid simplicity in folk music...etc




    Offline jen51

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    Ancient Roman Music
    « Reply #3 on: March 08, 2013, 09:30:31 PM »
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  • I like this music, PereJoseph. It's so unfamiliar to me, though. Thanks for introducing it. I have hardly a clue what instruments I am hearing. One in particular stood out to me. Do you know what the instrument is in the second link you posted? It's the one that sounds like bagpipes (imo). It has an interesting but pleasing sound.
    Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one's self unspotted from this world.
    ~James 1:27

    Offline Graham

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    « Reply #4 on: March 08, 2013, 09:59:35 PM »
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  • It is definitely a reed instrument, so I looked up Roman reed instruments, and found this page:

    http://ancestral.co.uk/romanreeds.htm

    I suspect it's a double aulos, since I hear two, one playing a drone, the other the melody. Here's a video with a higher pitched double aulos:



    Also, listening to PereJoseph's second song, starting around 2:45 there's an interesting horn sound. I wonder what that is.


    Offline jen51

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    « Reply #5 on: March 08, 2013, 10:23:05 PM »
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  • That horn in the second song sounds like a trumpet to me, though not the modern western trumpet I am sure. It's probably a primitive type. It has more of a sustained sound, with not as much edge. With a quick search, I turned up this on primitive roman trumpets. If I searched each one of these out, I'll bet we'd come up with it.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_primitive_and_non-Western_trumpets#section_1
    Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one's self unspotted from this world.
    ~James 1:27

    Offline jen51

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    Ancient Roman Music
    « Reply #6 on: March 08, 2013, 10:26:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: Graham
    It is definitely a reed instrument, so I looked up Roman reed instruments, and found this page:

    http://ancestral.co.uk/romanreeds.htm



    I think you're right about the aulos. The Phyrigian Tibia is really cool looking!
    Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one's self unspotted from this world.
    ~James 1:27

    Offline Graham

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    Ancient Roman Music
    « Reply #7 on: March 09, 2013, 08:56:13 AM »
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  • Quote from: jen51
    Quote from: Graham
    It is definitely a reed instrument, so I looked up Roman reed instruments, and found this page:

    http://ancestral.co.uk/romanreeds.htm



    I think you're right about the aulos. The Phyrigian Tibia is really cool looking!


    It reminds me of bit of the crumhorn.

    http://www.buzzle.com/images/public-domain/thumbnails/crumhorn.jpg