Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin  (Read 25842 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
« Reply #240 on: January 28, 2019, 11:01:03 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I've already explained this twice, dimwit.  Please try reading the rest of the sentence where the reasoning is explained.  You're like the Prot who pulls a sentence fragment out of Scripture to justify a heresy.
    What part of "ALWAYS sinful" don't you get?

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #241 on: January 28, 2019, 11:01:33 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • So the key is whether the action is INTRINSICALLY evil (i.e. sinful).  Which St. Thomas clearly says is not the case by indicating his reasons for why it's sinful (because men disapprove).  So if that reason changes, then it's no longer sinful.  And if something is not intrinsically sinful, then there can be open debate about the circuмstances under which it would be sinful and the circuмstances in which it would not be sinful.  Some women put on makeup JUST FOR THEMSELVES, even if they don't leave the house and have no husband around.  So wearing makeup around the house with no one around, that is sinful too?  Based on your distortion of St. Thomas, that would be the case.  Some women, similarly, get dressed in decent clothes even if they're alone at home because it makes them feel better, even if no one else sees them.  What if you're on TV, and makeup is practically required so that your face does not shine unnaturally as if it were greasy ... without the application of makeup?  In your reading of St. Thomas, that would be sinful too.  Give it a rest.
    What part of "ALWAYS sinful" don't you get?


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #242 on: January 28, 2019, 11:02:05 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • St. Thomas and St. Alphonsus:

    "But with regard to makeup, it is always a sin."

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #243 on: January 28, 2019, 11:03:09 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • No I will not intervene in this thread. I see no trolls. Just a heated discussion. Fight with your argumentation and ideas, not having recourse to the moderator.

    Matthew

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46525
    • Reputation: +27409/-5062
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #244 on: January 28, 2019, 11:08:32 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • No I will not intervene in this thread. I see no trolls. Just a heated discussion. Fight with your argumentation and ideas, not having recourse to the moderator.

    Matthew

    Well, you USED to have a policy against people re-pasting the same stuff over and over again, and other obnoxious behavior like using gigantic fonts on such reposts.


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #245 on: January 28, 2019, 11:09:38 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Well, you USED to have a policy against people re-pasting the same stuff over and over again, and other obnoxious behavior like using gigantic fonts on such reposts.
    Mommy, make him stop!
    I can't be right so long as he remains!

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #246 on: January 28, 2019, 11:10:32 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • al·ways
    Dictionary result for always

    /ˈôlˌwāz/
    adverb

    • 1.
      at all times; on all occasions.

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #247 on: January 28, 2019, 11:11:44 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Well, you USED to have a policy against people re-pasting the same stuff over and over again, and other obnoxious behavior like using gigantic fonts on such reposts.
    You get to use foul language and insults, and I get to use large font to help you see.
    Pretty fair, I think.


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46525
    • Reputation: +27409/-5062
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #248 on: January 28, 2019, 11:14:25 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • St. Thomas and St. Alphonsus:

    "But with regard to makeup, it is always a sin."

    Finish the sentence, and refute my arguments or go away.

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #249 on: January 28, 2019, 11:18:42 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Finish the sentence, and refute my arguments or go away.
    But with regard to make-up it is always a sin; for women are not permitted to be elegantly dressed except on account of men, and men refuse to be deceived, as a powdered woman would appear to him." (Vol. 1, p. 582)

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46525
    • Reputation: +27409/-5062
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #250 on: January 28, 2019, 11:35:56 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Let's look at what St. Thomas actually wrote.  Here you can find the entire question in context, something that our Puritan troll fears.
    http://newadvent.org/summa/3169.htm#article2

    Quote
    Nevertheless a woman may use means to please her husband, lest through despising her he fall into adultery. Hence it is written (1 Corinthians 7:34) that the woman "that is married thinketh on the things of the world, how she may please her husband." Wherefore if a married woman adorn herself in order to please her husband she can do this without sin.

    Notice, "without sin", not venial sin as the dishonest troll keeps saying.

    Now, let's keep going in that paragraph:


    Quote
    And if indeed they adorn themselves with this intention of provoking others to lust, they sin mortally; whereas if they do so from frivolity, or from vanity for the sake of ostentation, it is not always mortal, but sometimes venial. ...

    Yet in this case some might be excused from sin, when they do this not through vanity but on account of some contrary custom: although such a custom is not to be commended.

    Again, "excused from sin" period.

    Now his reply to one Church Father (St. Cyprian) who wrote against cosmetics:

    Quote
    Reply to Objection 1. As a gloss says on this passage, "The wives of those who were in distress despised their husbands, and decked themselves that they might please other men": and the Apostle forbids this. Cyprian is speaking in the same sense; yet he does not forbid married women to adorn themselves in order to please their husbands, lest the latter be afforded an occasion of sin with other women. Hence the Apostle says (1 Timothy 2:9): "Women . . . in ornate [Douay: 'decent'] apparel, adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire": whence we are given to understand that women are not forbidden to adorn themselves soberly and moderately but to do so excessively, shamelessly, and immodestly.

    and

    Quote
    Reply to Objection 2. Cyprian is speaking of women painting themselves: this is a kind of falsification, which cannot be devoid of sin. Wherefore Augustine says (Ep. ccxlv ad Possid.): "To dye oneself with paints in order to have a rosier or a paler complexion is a lying counterfeit. I doubt whether even their husbands are willing to be deceived by it, by whom alone" (i.e. the husbands) "are they to be permitted, but not ordered, to adorn themselves." However, such painting does not always involve a mortal sin, but only when it is done for the sake of sensuous pleasure or in contempt of God, and it is to like cases that Cyprian refers.

    It must, however, be observed that it is one thing to counterfeit a beauty one has not, and another to hide a disfigurement arising from some cause such as sickness or the like. For this is lawful, since according to the Apostle (1 Corinthians 12:23), "such as we think to be the less honorable members of the body, about these we put more abundant honor."

    So if a woman has blemishes or acne or other skin issues, NO SIN.  Notice how his reasoning echos that of the priest quoted in the OP.

    And, finally, ...

    Quote
     Accordingly, since women may lawfully adorn themselves, whether to maintain the fitness of their estate, or even by adding something thereto, in order to please their husbands, it follows that those who make such means of adornment do not sin in the practice of their art, except perhaps by inventing means that are superfluous and fantastic.

    "lawfully", i.e., without sin.




    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46525
    • Reputation: +27409/-5062
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #251 on: January 28, 2019, 11:39:13 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • But with regard to make-up it is always a sin; for women are not permitted to be elegantly dressed except on account of men, and men refuse to be deceived, as a powdered woman would appear to him." (Vol. 1, p. 582)

    Give the original citation to the texts of St. Thomas, and we'll look it up, shall we?

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #252 on: January 28, 2019, 11:56:12 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • You get to use foul language and insults, and I get to use large font to help you see.
    Pretty fair, I think.

    NO MORE large fonts like that. I had to fix that, and that wasted MY time. Future violations will result in ban of whoever did it. And yes, I can look up the ID of *anyone* in the anonymous subforum.

    I'm not going to dox or expose you when you ask a sensitive question. But if you abuse the anonymous subforum to misbehave, troll, or as any kind of cloak for malice, then I will A) expose your CathInfo member name and B) ban you.

    I won't have people abusing my anonymous subforum. That's for asking sensitive personal questions or reporting problems at your chapel or something like that.
    Matthew

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #253 on: January 28, 2019, 11:58:35 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Lol, in your first long-winded attempt, you would have us accept your unqualified and biased interpretation of St Thomas over that of a doctor of the Church’s, and in your 2nd miserable attempt, you seem to imply that either St Alphonsus falsified tge quote, or didn’t understand what he read?

    You need to get over yourself.

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46525
    • Reputation: +27409/-5062
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #254 on: January 28, 2019, 12:07:10 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!1
  • Lol, in your first long-winded attempt, you would have us accept your unqualified and biased interpretation of St Thomas over that of a doctor of the Church’s

    Ah, OK, so citing the full text of St. Thomas is my being long-winded.

    There's no interpretation about it.  St. Thomas clearly lays out the conditions under which wearing makeup (moderately) entails NO SIN whatsoever, not mortal, not venial.

    1) in order to please their husbands
    2) following custom
    3) to conceal defects
    4) maintain the fitness of their state (such as to look good and "put together" so as not to have people think that their husband can't provide for them if they look disheveled ... i.e. look like trailer trash)