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Author Topic: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin  (Read 20808 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2019, 11:34:50 AM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on January 24, 2019, 11:21:43 AM
    Whatever the subjective intent in cosmetics application may be, it is still objectively different than grooming and hygiene:
    By the latter is understood any of the following: Bathing, cutting or combing hair, shaving, cutting nails, wearing proper attire, etc.
    These practices are how a civilized and Catholic person presents their best self to the world:
    There is nothing artificial added.
    Cosmetics, on the other hand, present purely artificial enhancement or masking techniques which always imply a desire to present a false self to the world.
    The difference between grooming and hygiene on the one hand, and cosmetic use on the other, could not be clearer.
    I almost get the sense that some have confounded the two because of long years of acceptance (ie., after my shower, I put on my makeup, therefore it is all hygiene/grooms no), or, in desiring to make the two equivalent (and therefore permissible), seek to blur the distinction.

    I'm talking about the moral equivalency.  So now everything artificial is intrinsically evil?  Interesting that never comes up in the treatments of cosmetics by St. Thomas and the Church Fathers; they're speaking solely in terms of their effect and their intent (an incitement to impurity).  And the Church Fathers who speak about being unnatural are referring to a practice of paint the face with colors.  But light, moderate use of makeup can look completely natural.
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    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #46 on: January 24, 2019, 11:43:53 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 24, 2019, 11:34:50 AM
    I'm talking about the moral equivalency.  So now everything artificial is intrinsically evil?  Interesting that never comes up in the treatments of cosmetics by St. Thomas and the Church Fathers; they're speaking solely in terms of their effect and their intent (an incitement to impurity).
    Nobody but you has introduced the issue of intrinsic evil into the equation, meaning you are debating with yourself there (probably as a tactic to draw attention away from the distinction between hygiene/grooming and cosmetics application).
    So far as the alleged “moral equivalency” is concerned, that argument is implicitly refuted by the saints, pope’s, Fathers, and doctors quoted earlier in this thread (none of whom objected to grooming or hygiene, but all of whom objected to one degree or another to cosmetics):
    If there really was moral equivalence, they would not be objecting to the latter.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #47 on: January 24, 2019, 11:46:37 AM »
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    • And, ultimately, it's men who put women in a difficult position.  Men routinely judge a woman's value based on her physical appearance ... even if not entirely, at least partly.  That's because men tend to be more visual by nature.  And this is true even of the vast majority of Traditional Catholic men.  I would even surmise that many of those who denounce the use of makeup would not hesitate to think poorly of an unattractive woman.  Consequently, a woman feels herself to be of more or less value depending on how she looks.  I constantly hear men denouncing women as ugly or fat or whatnot.  So, at the end of the day, men are ultimately at fault.  Women by nature tend to respond to what they think men are seeking and what men want.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #48 on: January 24, 2019, 11:49:07 AM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on January 24, 2019, 11:44:15 AM
    A secretary going to work and covering up some acne scars or a birthmark with concealer or foundation is clearly not going out of her way to be sɛҳuąƖly provocative.

    Exactly.  I've known girls who, as you said, use some concealer and foundation to cover up acne, for example.  If I had an open sore on my arm, would I not cover it up so as not to incite revulsion in others when they see it?  How is that anything like painting the face in bright colors to the point of looking like a prostitute ... so as to seduce men?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #49 on: January 24, 2019, 11:56:57 AM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on January 24, 2019, 11:53:49 AM
    Some people lack common sense.  They gravely lack it.

    My sentiments exactly  :laugh1:.
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    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #50 on: January 24, 2019, 12:00:41 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on January 24, 2019, 11:44:15 AM
    This makes absolute sense to me.
    The effect any action is intended to have must be considered.
    A secretary going to work and covering up some acne scars or a birthmark with concealer or foundation is clearly not going out of her way to be sɛҳuąƖly provocative.
    Likewise these Russian dancers are wearing make-up in order to look the same for reasons that aid the artistic performance.

    Subjective intention will bear upon moral culpability, but not upon the objective reality of the act.
    That said, I do agree that the saints who have condemned cosmetics probably did not have quasi-medical uses in mind, such as you mention.
    But that said, let’s be honest: That exception isn’t really what we are talking about here.  What has the feathers ruffled is the idea women shouldn’t wear makeup in cases other than such as you mention.
    90% want to be able to wear makeup to “look gooood” for the world, and not just their husbands in the privacy of their homes.
    If that wasn’t true, this thread would have ended with that concession from the St Thomas quote.
    But that wasn’t enough: The vain and strident are not satisfied with that much.
    They want to wear makeup periods, and are looking for a cuмulative of exceptions to make the teachings of the saints go away.
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    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #51 on: January 24, 2019, 12:06:53 PM »
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    • Anyone notice the sour turn/tenor this thread took once Ladislaus got involved?

    Compare the first several pages with those after he arrived.
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    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #52 on: January 24, 2019, 12:14:55 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on January 24, 2019, 12:06:53 PM
    Anyone notice the sour turn/tenor this thread took once Ladislaus got involved?

    Compare the first several pages with those after he arrived.
    Really...? I think he’s the only gentleman among the men. 
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    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #53 on: January 24, 2019, 12:28:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on January 24, 2019, 12:14:55 PM
    Really...? I think he’s the only gentleman among the men.
    .
    I thought the atmosphere improved dramatically once Ladislaus started posting.  Other than maybe a comment I assume was by ggreg, except he mentioned later it didn't show his name.  i.e. The post I am assuming was by ggreg was a good one too.  

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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #54 on: January 24, 2019, 01:13:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on January 24, 2019, 12:06:53 PM
    Anyone notice the sour turn/tenor this thread took once Ladislaus got involved?

    Compare the first several pages with those after he arrived.

    Croix/Quid, is that you?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #55 on: January 24, 2019, 01:14:31 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on January 22, 2019, 07:34:14 PM
    Maybe its analogous to men wearing tank-tops:  If the Missus likes me to flex my pythons around the house for her viewing pleasure (lol), I would be allowed to do so (?), but I certainly could not go to the Walmart like that, because it would be an occasion to sin for all the women 8) (i.e., I could not go out in public looking like that, and still maintain that it was "only for my wife")?

    Definitely Croix/Quid  :laugh1:
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    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #56 on: January 24, 2019, 01:32:57 PM »
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    • So many on this thread agree it's OK to wear makeup at home to please one's husband.
    Does that mean that men like women who wear makeup?
    If so that's why women do it!

    Think back to when young people were looking for a spouse.
    If the girl didn't look a little attractive the guy never gave her a second look much less
    took the time to get to know her.
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    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #57 on: January 24, 2019, 01:37:25 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on January 24, 2019, 01:32:57 PM
    So many on this thread agree it's OK to wear makeup at home to please one's husband.
    Does that mean that men like women who wear makeup?
    If so that's why women do it!

    Think back to when young people were looking for a spouse.
    If the girl didn't look a little attractive the guy never gave her a second look much less
    took the time to get to know her.
    More or less an admission that the REAL reason women want to wear makeup is for sex appeal.
    Sad (but revealing) to see this degree of worldliness so prevalent among trades.
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    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #58 on: January 24, 2019, 01:50:50 PM »
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    • Do you live in Gary, IN, Oakland, or Buffalo?

    Where I live (and anywhere I have ever been), nearly any female from 13-80 is wearing makeup.

    Are you seriously trying to dispute the prevalence of cosmetics among that demographic?

    Good luck!!
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #59 on: January 24, 2019, 01:53:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: Anonymous on January 24, 2019, 01:37:25 PM
    More or less an admission that the REAL reason women want to wear makeup is for sex appeal.
    Sad (but revealing) to see this degree of worldliness so prevalent among trades.

    That's not what she said.  She said that NOT wearing makeup becomes an obstacle for men even stopping to take the time to get to know them.  And, sadly, she's right.  Lots of Trad men would ignore the women without makeup and gravitate towards the ones who wear it ... even while bloviating the entire time about how wearing makeup is a sin.

    It's almost like the sports players who feel they need to take steroids to compete, even if they don't want to, because everyone else is using them ... and that puts them at a competitive disadvantage.
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