Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 ... 29

Author Topic: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin  (Read 26177 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Änσnymσus

  • Guest
Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
« Reply #135 on: January 26, 2019, 02:44:33 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on January 26, 2019, 02:13:45 PM
    Of all the dangers and mountainous problems of feminism today, make-up is truly a molehill.  Much bigger fish to fry.
    Terrible principle to suggest smaller sins can skate by if there is a bigger sin out there.
    Accosting that, kidnapping would get a pass because we should be more worriesd about murder.
    Logged

    Offline SusanneT

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 305
    • Reputation: +144/-27
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #136 on: January 26, 2019, 05:25:22 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • This is very simple ! 

    First of all if a woman is wearing makeup of which her father or husband disapproves then that is wrong.  

    Equally if she is doing so out of a motivation of vanity or immodesty then that is wrong.  

    But if she wears modest and discrete makeup with the approval of her father / husband - was then why not ?!
    Logged

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46562
    • Reputation: +27426/-5067
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #137 on: January 26, 2019, 05:32:08 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Anonymous on January 26, 2019, 02:44:33 PM
    Terrible principle to suggest smaller sins can skate by if there is a bigger sin out there.

    You're begging the question in alleging that it's a sin at all.
    Logged

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46562
    • Reputation: +27426/-5067
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #138 on: January 26, 2019, 05:33:21 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: SusanneT on January 26, 2019, 05:25:22 PM
    This is very simple !

    First of all if a woman is wearing makeup of which her father or husband disapproves then that is wrong.  

    Equally if she is doing so out of a motivation of vanity or immodesty then that is wrong.  

    But if she wears modest and discrete makeup with the approval of her father / husband - was then why not ?!

    Right, but in each case, it's wrong due some other reason and not in and of itself, the first being disobedience, the second vanity or immodesty.
    Logged

    Offline SusanneT

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 305
    • Reputation: +144/-27
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #139 on: January 26, 2019, 07:12:12 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 26, 2019, 05:33:21 PM
    Right, but in each case, it's wrong due some other reason and not in and of itself, the first being disobedience, the second vanity or immodesty.
    That is my point.  Makeup is ont a sin but immodesty, vanity and disobedience are. 
    Logged

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #140 on: January 26, 2019, 07:21:12 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: SusanneT on January 26, 2019, 07:12:12 PM
    That is my point.  Makeup is ont a sin but immodesty, vanity and disobedience are.
    Could you please provide any example of the use of cosmetics which is not an act of vanity (and by your own definition, sinful)?
    Logged

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 12102
    • Reputation: +7626/-2304
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #141 on: January 26, 2019, 07:28:21 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • The same argument against make-up could be made against a fancy dress, or a nice suit, or a tuxedo, or a sports car, or going to the gym...all of these activities are meant to help the individual “be better” or “look good” or “feel good about himself”...therefore they are wrong, because they are unnecessary, prideful and the intention is vanity.  

    I believe the above ideals are puritanical, extreme and stoic, but if others don’t, then be consistent and start anathematizing all other “vain” activities.  
    Logged

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #142 on: January 26, 2019, 07:39:53 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on January 26, 2019, 07:28:21 PM
    The same argument against make-up could be made against a fancy dress, or a nice suit, or a tuxedo, or a sports car, or going to the gym...all of these activities are meant to help the individual “be better” or “look good” or “feel good about himself”...therefore they are wrong, because they are unnecessary, prideful and the intention is vanity.  

    I believe the above ideals are puritanical, extreme and stoic, but if others don’t, then be consistent and start anathematizing all other “vain” activities.  
    Dead wrong:
    A Catholic dresses with dignity, which is a very different thing than vanity.
    A Catholic dresses well to indicate the glory of their calling.
    But cosmetics, by the repeated admissions of its users, reflect either carnal or vain motives (ie., makes me feel better because others will think better of me).
    The chasm separating dignity from vanity is infinite.
    Logged

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #143 on: January 26, 2019, 10:48:13 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Anonymous on January 26, 2019, 07:21:12 PM
    Could you please provide any example of the use of cosmetics which is not an act of vanity (and by your own definition, sinful)?
    I second that question.
    I could see some fringe examples involving actual disfigurement, but a normal woman wearing makeup involves some degree of vanity.
    Venial sin, sure. But no sin? I doubt it.
    Logged

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #144 on: January 26, 2019, 11:16:12 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

    • Quote
    But cosmetics, by the repeated admissions of its users, reflect either carnal or vain motives (ie., makes me feel better because others will think better of me).

    Cosmetics are objects, which do not reflect a motive.  The motive comes from the individual, which could be good, bad or neutral.

    If the wearing of cosmetics ALWAYS has a motive of vanity, then the ownership of a gun ALWAYS has a motive of violence.  Of course, this makes no sense.  The true answer is that cosmetics, like fine clothing, a nice house, or a sports car, is not wrong in and of itself.  Such things can be a sin for some people, who are overly attached to these luxuries, yet not a sin for others.  

    St Thomas More was the 2nd highest nobleman in England, lived in a mansion, and had all kinds of servants.  Was this sinful?  No, because it was part of state in life and he wasn't attached to riches (as he proved at the end of his life, when he lost all of his wealth after disagreeing with Henry VIII).

    In the same way, for women who are looking for marriage or who are married, I think it's part of their state in life to wear make-up (to a degree) in order to be presentable in society.  Secondly, make-up is a COMMON PRACTICE in our society, so that those who wear NONE would appear unusual and extreme, and Catholic morals does not demand we "take a stand" on areas where there are no intrinsic evils involved.  In other words, this is a gray area which each person has to decide for themselves their level of vanity and the occasion of sin which cosmetics causes them.

    As a man, I see no major "occasion to sin" from make-up.  The occasion to sin is typically related to fashion, not a pretty face.


    Quote
    The chasm separating dignity from vanity is infinite.
    One person's dignity is another person's vanity.  It's all relative.  
    Logged

    Offline MaterDominici

    • Mod
    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 5583
    • Reputation: +4319/-100
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #145 on: January 26, 2019, 11:21:23 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Anonymous on January 26, 2019, 11:16:12 PM
    In the same way, for women who are looking for marriage or who are married, I think it's part of their state in life to wear make-up (to a degree) in order to be presentable in society.  Secondly, make-up is a COMMON PRACTICE in our society, so that those who wear NONE would appear unusual and extreme, and Catholic morals does not demand we "take a stand" on areas where there are no intrinsic evils involved.  In other words, this is a gray area which each person has to decide for themselves their level of vanity and the occasion of sin which cosmetics causes them.
    I knew we were going to get to the skirt / pants argument here soon enough. Except, that pants are WAY MORE UNIVERSAL than makeup. So, if you're justifying makeup because someone who wears none would be "unusual or extreme" then you certainly can't expect women to wear skirts.
    Logged

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #146 on: January 27, 2019, 04:36:00 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Anonymous on January 26, 2019, 11:16:12 PM
    Cosmetics are objects, which do not reflect a motive.  The motive comes from the individual, which could be good, bad or neutral.

    If the wearing of cosmetics ALWAYS has a motive of vanity, then the ownership of a gun ALWAYS has a motive of violence.  Of course, this makes no sense.  The true answer is that cosmetics, like fine clothing, a nice house, or a sports car, is not wrong in and of itself.  Such things can be a sin for some people, who are overly attached to these luxuries, yet not a sin for others.  

    St Thomas More was the 2nd highest nobleman in England, lived in a mansion, and had all kinds of servants.  Was this sinful?  No, because it was part of state in life and he wasn't attached to riches (as he proved at the end of his life, when he lost all of his wealth after disagreeing with Henry VIII).

    In the same way, for women who are looking for marriage or who are married, I think it's part of their state in life to wear make-up (to a degree) in order to be presentable in society.  Secondly, make-up is a COMMON PRACTICE in our society, so that those who wear NONE would appear unusual and extreme, and Catholic morals does not demand we "take a stand" on areas where there are no intrinsic evils involved.  In other words, this is a gray area which each person has to decide for themselves their level of vanity and the occasion of sin which cosmetics causes them.

    As a man, I see no major "occasion to sin" from make-up.  The occasion to sin is typically related to fashion, not a pretty face.

    One person's dignity is another person's vanity.  It's all relative.  
    Nice try, but no cigar: 
    The following definitions of "dignity" and "vanity" are those which come up simply by Googling the terms, and they are directly opposite: "Dignity" is a respect which comes from without, while "Vanity" is an obsession which comes from within:
    Dignity: "The state or quality of being worthy of honor or respect."  
    Synonyms:Stateliness, nobleness, nobility, majesty, regalness, regality, royalness, courtliness, augustness, loftiness, exaltedness, lordliness, impressiveness, grandeur
    Vanity: "Excessive pride in or admiration of one's own appearance or achievements."
    Synonyms: Conceit, narcissism, self-love, self-admiration, self-regard, self-absorption, self-obsession, self-centeredness, egotism, egoism, egocentrism, egomania.

    A Catholic will be "dignified" in light of his filial adoption as sons and daughters of Christ, but never "vain."

    Your attempt to confound the two is disingenuous and mischievous.

    In every possible application, cosmetics have only one end: To enhance or "improve" the physical appearance.

    Their use is per se vain, to one degree or another, and there are no exceptions.

    I might also note that one who cannot distinguish dignity from vanity is very obviously deficient in the former (because dignity is not an accidental or unconscious quality; only one who is mindful at all times of their exalted calling can possess it, by responding in kind to that calling, and the demands it makes of us).

    The vain lack dignity (and the proof of this is that makeup has always, in Christian civilization, been associated with low women).
    Logged

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #147 on: January 27, 2019, 06:59:56 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Haven't read through entire thread so I apologize if this was mentioned.  

    Is it sinful for men to dye their hair or wear a toupee?
    Logged

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #148 on: January 27, 2019, 07:12:09 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Anonymous on January 27, 2019, 06:59:56 AM
    Haven't read through entire thread so I apologize if this was mentioned.  

    Is it sinful for men to dye their hair or wear a toupee?
    It would definitely be vanity, for sure.
    Logged

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Women Who Wear ANY Makeup Sin
    « Reply #149 on: January 27, 2019, 08:54:13 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • I didn't really want to comment on this thread but I think I need to.
    I have seen a lot of young ladies at my old trad community that were quite feminine, HOLY and lovely in their demeanor and actions, but I wish I had a dollar for every time they were passed over by young trad men in favor of the new attractive girl on the block .These young ladies would make wonderful wives and mothers, but they are usually never approached.They may be considered "plain", but never ugly! It's apparent that men are not necessarily looking for holiness as their primary trait in a spouse, but they are certainly looking for attractiveness, as implied even in this thread. I'm not a feminist but i find referring to trad women as numbers ("She's a 10- she's a five")a bit revolting and I'm surprised I'm even reading this here. Why don't you go get a veterinarian and have their teeth checked while you're at it? Not a lot of respect and dignity
    The girls that are always ignored "get it". They know the score. Beauty is the #1 way to catch a prospective husband. Can you imagine the rejection/dejection some of these ladies feel? They are trying to do the right thing for God, but it's not enough for the guys. I'm sure many of them would like to get out of bed in the morning, shake their hair and naturally look like ( a young) Christie Brinkley, that's what (ALL) men want, but it's not happening for them. Funny, it's the men who place such a high price on beauty , and I'm not even blaming them for it- it's a natural response. But  then when young ladies try to compete for attention by applying a little make-up ( applied well it DOES improve your looks) it's a sin. I think this thread just proves the point on why some Trad women feel compelled to wear make-up especially if they are not 8 and 1/2's!!
    Logged
    Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 ... 29
    « previous next »