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Author Topic: Wife doesnt want to move out of her parents house.  (Read 6393 times)

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Wife doesnt want to move out of her parents house.
« on: September 05, 2015, 07:57:55 PM »
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  • It was a huge mistake "temporarily" moving into my wife's parents' house while searching for houses to buy because now she doesn't want to buy a house (even though my parents were ready to buy one for us!), her parents (who said that Gregorian chant sounds satanic and the Latin Mass akin to a whore, God help us) are Novus Ordites turning Protestant (as they weekly invite heretics over to study the "Bible"), and she loves her man-child brother living here more than me (e.g., she does everything he asks of her, but never listens to me, including re: the marriage debt).

    I am tempted to leave, but I fear this may expose her to the temptation to commit adultery. Her mother accuses me, behind my back, of adultery pretty much every time I go somewhere without my wife; it seems she wants me to commit adultery just so her daughter can marry someone of her own race.

    Would I sin by leaving? We have no children. My soul is at stake in this poisonous environment. I'm going crazy with all the TVs blasting commercials, etc.; I'm the only one here who loves and craves silence.

    Please keep us in your prayers. Please pray to St. Raphael for us, to give me courage and lead us safely out of here.

    thank you


    Offline Matthew

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    Wife doesnt want to move out of her parents house.
    « Reply #1 on: September 06, 2015, 12:06:19 PM »
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  • See, race does matter. If it were as unimportant as eye color, you wouldn't have "one more issue" to deal with (namely, her parents secretly wishing their daughter could marry in her race). It's a natural desire.

    Not saying you wouldn't have any other problems, but I always say, "Why add one more problem?" Life is difficult enough. Try to go WITH human nature when you can. There are so many ways you have to fight it.

    That's what St. Paul said -- "inasmuch as it lies with you, be at peace with all men." We have to oppose the world and our neighbor on so many things touching on the Faith -- why be at war with him about petty domestic issues?

    As for your case, I can only pray for you and agree that you're pretty much in the right. Yes, those things are messed up: the worldly atmosphere, TVs, non-acceptance of you by your in-laws because you're "outside their race", non-docility of your wife to you (instead of her brother), etc.

    I would point out that many problems aren't solved by a pill or a scalpel. Think of a man who is depressed by his state in life. You can feed him pills to alter his brain chemistry, but does that solve the root problem? No. He's still "a failure in life" and that is the real cause of his depression. His brain is not malfunctioning. Now if you could convince him that he is not a failure, then you might get somewhere...

    Likewise, many problems in men (as in, mankind) are spiritual or psychological.

    She generally doesn't listen to you about the marriage debt? That's pretty serious. Her relationship with her family is also a factor. She seems to have emotional/psychological issues, like she's a 10 year old girl inside wanting to go back home to be with mommy.

    Mother in laws, or in-laws in general, can be bad news. That's why traditional cultures believe that you're marrying the family, in a way. That's also why so many races frown on intermixing nations and races. You're basically asking a ____ family to be super close to a ____ family. If they fail to become close, you have a divided house, with him preferring his family, and her preferring hers. How is that good?

    Now in your wife's case: did she ever intend to be a normal wife, giving herself to you as in a traditional marriage? Having all the children God sends, and knowing what that entails on her part? It sounds like she had some kind of immaturity and/or psychological issues.

    Now immaturity doesn't automatically imply annulment -- speak to a priest.

    You obviously missed a LOT of signs during your courtship. As for right now, I'd speak with a traditional priest. It sounds like you've got yourself in a doozy of a situation.
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    Änσnymσus

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    Wife doesnt want to move out of her parents house.
    « Reply #2 on: September 06, 2015, 04:17:19 PM »
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  • For what little it's worth, from just what you've said, perhaps some part of the following applies and will help..

    Wives often can sense how their husbands feel or appreciate them or not, you better get your heart in the right place of good will towards her with little regard normally for how unreasonable she is or it's just going to get worse.

    She's not going to want to move out with you if living with you there is already unpleasant because you're unhappy with her. You have to emotionally convince a woman if you haven't figured that out yet, it's not all 'well this is the logical thing let's do this'. Always think in terms of her happiness more than logical arguments when you wish her to think of something positively, what could you say or do for her that would make her think more happily about it and show you are in some way catering to her misgivings and going to take care of things well.

    Marriage often isn't about what's right or who's right, it's about practically what needs to be done to keep people happy and together.

    Start showing you find her pleasing to be with and doing the little things that would make her happy and she might turn over a leaf enough to be willing to move out with you.

    Normally, with a wife I am told, if you can keep her happy with the little things that appreciate her enough, she'll do a lot of things for you. She'll feel like she should do something in return for the appreciation.

    But if you constantly frown at her because she's not yet doing what you want that's not going to lead to a better result esp. with a non-traditional woman. I don't know how bad you have it but you made some vows so rather than looking to bail out without the woman, do what it takes to make her happy with the idea of moving out. A new house in move in condition, a nice little place might just do the trick..

    Is this as far as your vows go in effort towards fixing things? Find solace in prayer and improve your soul, and constantly pray God to have the strength to bear the cross until you both can leave.

    One of the 12 promises of honoring the Sacred Heart is peace in the family. Read those 12 promises, get a picture of the Sacred Heart and honor Him daily with it in prayer so those promises start helping fix the problems your home life. Get some St. Benedict medals too.

    Änσnymσus

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    Wife doesnt want to move out of her parents house.
    « Reply #3 on: September 06, 2015, 04:42:41 PM »
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  • I think Matthew is correct, you need to speak to a good, solid, traditional priest to help you sort out your complicated situation.

    Separation is not always a bad thing, sometimes to preserve our souls we must separate from a poisonous person.  However, that does not mean an annulment is necessarily possible.

    Änσnymσus

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    Wife doesnt want to move out of her parents house.
    « Reply #4 on: September 06, 2015, 04:49:03 PM »
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  • I forgot to mention, but contraception, practiced by the in-laws, is the root cause of all these issues. Oremus pro usuarios contraceptionis.


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    Wife doesnt want to move out of her parents house.
    « Reply #5 on: September 07, 2015, 08:43:06 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    See, race does matter. If it were as unimportant as eye color, you wouldn't have "one more issue" to deal with (namely, her parents secretly wishing their daughter could marry in her race). It's a natural desire.

    It only matters because people make it matter.

    If a boy were ginger and wore glasses, it shouldn't matter. But if someone starts bullying him for being ginger and wearing glasses, it matters. But only because a bully is needlessly making it matter. And you might not want your child to marry someone who might pass on characteristics that attract bullies. But should the bullies dictate such matters?
     
    Not saying the parents are bullies, just that they're making something which doesn't matter matter.

    Offline Matthew

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    Wife doesnt want to move out of her parents house.
    « Reply #6 on: September 07, 2015, 09:38:55 AM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Quote from: Matthew
    See, race does matter. If it were as unimportant as eye color, you wouldn't have "one more issue" to deal with (namely, her parents secretly wishing their daughter could marry in her race). It's a natural desire.

    It only matters because people make it matter.

    If a boy were ginger and wore glasses, it shouldn't matter. But if someone starts bullying him for being ginger and wearing glasses, it matters. But only because a bully is needlessly making it matter. And you might not want your child to marry someone who might pass on characteristics that attract bullies. But should the bullies dictate such matters?
     
    Not saying the parents are bullies, just that they're making something which doesn't matter matter.


    The difference is that bullies will bully you for anything, including things you can't control, such as skinniness, fatness, shortness, etc.

    But the mother-in-law in this case, while human and very flawed (and even in sin, since she uses contraception) is likely innocent about this one matter. That is to say, we have no evidence that she generally bullies others. She is likely only motivated by pangs of conscience about the Contraception issue, and the race issue.

    But there could easily be a mother-in-law who goes to Mass every Sunday, doesn't use contraception, but still is tempted to "root for" her daughter to marry within her race -- so her grandkids will look more like her and her husband. Even after her daughter marries outside their race, she might secretly wish he would leave her, die, etc. My point is that having other humans around you that look and talk similar to you is a legitimate, human desire, and it will always be there. "Charity begins at home."

    If God wasn't in on this, then why did He design heredity to work as it does? He could have made each baby random, like the output of a slot machine. This time, a black baby. Next time, an asian. Next time, another asian! The next time, a white blond, and so forth.

    Some will be able to rationalize or over-ride this desire with their reason ("oh, at least he's Catholic", "there is no sin", "everyone has a soul", etc.) but some will not. Just like a few people are able to hold a cold, rational conversation, while most people end up getting emotionally involved at some point, especially in hot debates touching on the Faith and where to attend Mass.
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    Wife doesnt want to move out of her parents house.
    « Reply #7 on: September 07, 2015, 10:33:11 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    But there could easily be a mother-in-law who goes to Mass every Sunday, doesn't use contraception, but still is tempted to "root for" her daughter to marry within her race -- so her grandkids will look more like her and her husband. Even after her daughter marries outside their race, she might secretly wish he would leave her, die, etc. My point is that having other humans around you that look and talk similar to you is a legitimate, human desire, and it will always be there. "Charity begins at home."

    I'm not sure how "charity begins at home" applies here. It's a natural and legitimate desire not to catch leprosy, but it's just as well we've had a few saints who were willing to go beyond what is natural. And I don't think it's legitimate to exclude people who don't look like you from your circle of friends just because they don't look like you. What's Christian about that?

    I can understand that, from a man's point of view, it matters that his children resemble him, for obvious reasons!
    Quote
    If God wasn't in on this, then why did He design heredity to work as it does? He could have made each baby random, like the output of a slot machine. This time, a black baby. Next time, an asian. Next time, another asian! The next time, a white blond, and so forth.

    He also designed that two people of different races could successfully produce children who, while mixed, resemble both parents.

    Quote
    Some will be able to rationalize or over-ride this desire with their reason ("oh, at least he's Catholic", "there is no sin", "everyone has a soul", etc.) but some will not. Just like a few people are able to hold a cold, rational conversation, while most people end up getting emotionally involved at some point, especially in hot debates touching on the Faith and where to attend Mass.

    Most of the emotion comes from the side which opposes mixed race marriages. The fact is it is not a sin. However, it would be a sin for that hypothetical mother-in-law to want her son-in-law to leave or die. And it would also be sinful if she rejected her grandchildren.


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    Wife doesnt want to move out of her parents house.
    « Reply #8 on: September 07, 2015, 11:12:58 AM »
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    The fact is it is not a sin. However, it would be a sin for that hypothetical mother-in-law to want her son-in-law to leave or die. And it would also be sinful if she rejected her grandchildren.

    Thinking on this a bit more, it seems that sinning often comes more naturally than not sinning. So an appeal to how natural it is to want your descendants to resemble you is fine and natural, but when it gets to the stage of resenting any descendants who don't look like you, then it becomes sinful.

    Another thought, if you have several children, most of whom marry within their race, but one doesn't, is it really so upsetting that some of your grandchildren look different?

    Offline Matthew

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    Wife doesnt want to move out of her parents house.
    « Reply #9 on: September 07, 2015, 11:18:38 AM »
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  • All I'm saying, is that there is a flow to this river of human nature, and it's always easiest to go with the flow.

    Wanting children of the same race as you is not sinful either. That is my point. Why have human nature work against you when you don't have to?

    Look at any portrayal of "old world" parents in the context of "their daughter wants to marry outside their race." The portrayal could be a Hollywood movie, a work of literature, or even real life. Usually they're quite emotional and negative about it.

    Hollywood certainly portrays them as having backward views, being intransigent, a fossil from an older time, etc.

    I would submit, in complete opposition to today's multicultural liberal world, that those stodgy old Greek or Italian parents were completely natural and sane having those feelings.
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    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #10 on: September 07, 2015, 11:21:22 AM »
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  • And as I pointed out, there are some things that we have to fight in human nature to gain heaven (our tendency to sin, for example) but even if you manage to stay in the state of grace, you are going to prefer the company of those of your own kind, for example. Water seeks its own level.

    Smart people like to choose their friends from among other smart people. And so forth.

    The modern world wants to COMPLETELY rebuild human nature and God's order everywhere into a new, man-created order. This is madness, and it will never work.

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    Wife doesnt want to move out of her parents house.
    « Reply #11 on: September 07, 2015, 12:53:15 PM »
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  • The op made a bad marriage to a woman who sees him as an appendage.  I hope I am wrong.

    This marriage will likely never be satisfactory.  

    Your wife sees her family as an extension of herself and they come first.  Your only role is an ancillary one.  Your job, as she most likely sees it, is to please her.  

    Did you meet your wife at a traditional Catholic Church?

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    Wife doesnt want to move out of her parents house.
    « Reply #12 on: September 07, 2015, 02:38:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    All I'm saying, is that there is a flow to this river of human nature, and it's always easiest to go with the flow.

    Wanting children of the same race as you is not sinful either.

    But rejecting children who aren't is.


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    Wife doesnt want to move out of her parents house.
    « Reply #13 on: September 07, 2015, 02:46:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    And as I pointed out, there are some things that we have to fight in human nature to gain heaven (our tendency to sin, for example) but even if you manage to stay in the state of grace, you are going to prefer the company of those of your own kind, for example. Water seeks its own level.

    It may naturally happen that way. All my friends are the same race as I am. But to have a policy of only being open to associating with people of the same race is narrow-minded, in the worst sense. I can't see anything Christian in ignoring someone of a different race who has newly come to the parish, for example. Surely the Christian thing to do would be to go out of your way to befriend him, especially if you think most people in the parish are going to avoid him because apparently it's natural to prefer your own kind! I think that is a tendency to fight against.

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #14 on: September 07, 2015, 03:41:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: Guest
    Quote from: Matthew
    All I'm saying, is that there is a flow to this river of human nature, and it's always easiest to go with the flow.

    Wanting children of the same race as you is not sinful either.

    But rejecting children who aren't is.


    No argument there.
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