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Author Topic: Why the Neo-SSPX position on the Crisis is untenable  (Read 30517 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Why the Neo-SSPX position on the Crisis is untenable
« Reply #105 on: September 04, 2022, 05:05:06 AM »
Your latest criticism of R&R is now that it is basically Old Catholicism. You generally have many negative and often ridiculous things to say about R&R.

Prove me wrong.  Just throwing the word "ridiculous" at it does not suffice.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Why the Neo-SSPX position on the Crisis is untenable
« Reply #106 on: September 04, 2022, 05:12:22 AM »
So you really don't want all trads to be sedevacantists? Or at least your brand of sedeism - sedeprivationism? That surprises me.

Just stop with the "sedeism".  You're a "sedeist", a sedeplenist.

As for wanting all Trads to be sedevacatists.  Nonsense.  I have no problem with Father Chazal's position, nor with that of Archbishop Lefebvre.  I only want that people stop undermining the Holiness and indefectibility of the Church.  If you want to believe that Montini was replaced by a double, more power to you.  I've explained multiple times that I'm not a dogmatic sedevacantist, just a dogmatic indefectibilist.  Archbishop Lefebvre upheld the principle that this degree of corruption through the Papacy is not possible, since the Papacy is guided by the Holy Spirit.  Unfortunately, later generations of R&R jettisoned this principle.  +Lefebvre simply felt that the SOLUTION to this dilemma was not completely certain.  In listing some possible explanations, he did examine and reject some of the theories (drugged Paul VI, etc.).  He did not go into blackmailed Paul VI, which is also theoretically possible, given the credible reports out there that he was a sodomite.  Archbishop Lefebvre said that SVism was possible, but he did not have the degree of certainty about that particular solution to the problem (given other theoretical possibilities), and so never came out as SV, but at no point did he jettison the notion that a corruption of the Church through legitimate papal authority was not possible.

I actually do NOT hold the opinion that the Holy See was vacant from 1958-1989, but that Pope Gregory XVII (Cardinal Siri, not Clemente Dominguez) was the rightful pope during that time, and that since then the status of the Holy See is unknown.

Whatever the solution, it simply cannot be the Old Catholic variation of R&R that's held by more and more people.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Why the Neo-SSPX position on the Crisis is untenable
« Reply #107 on: September 04, 2022, 05:22:12 AM »
Whatever the solution, it simply cannot be the Old Catholic variation of R&R that's held by more and more people.

We had Decem here nearly verbatim adhering to the Old Catholic talking points (from the Utrecht declaration), including citing St. Vincent of Lerins and claiming that only the "ANCIENT" Ecuмenical Councils could be counted on to determine Tradition.  In the Utrecht declaration, the Old Catholics likewise pounced on the term "ancient", as emphasized by Decem, and used it at least a dozen times while articulating their heretical ecclesiology.

Old Catholic declaration at Utrecht opened with the same St. Vincent of Lerins quote and immediately focused in on "ancient" ... to the point that Decem could have written that himself (with the exception of one or two sentences).

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Why the Neo-SSPX position on the Crisis is untenable
« Reply #108 on: September 04, 2022, 05:24:31 AM »
Ironically, we recently had Bergoglio citing St. Vincent of Lerins and claiming that St. Vincent endorsed the (Modernist notion of the) development of doctrine.  So St. Vincent seems to be "all things to all people" ... an Old Catholic for Old Catholics and a Modernist for Bergoglio.


Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Why the Neo-SSPX position on the Crisis is untenable
« Reply #109 on: September 04, 2022, 06:57:01 AM »
We had Decem here nearly verbatim adhering to the Old Catholic talking points (from the Utrecht declaration), including citing St. Vincent of Lerins and claiming that only the "ANCIENT" Ecuмenical Councils could be counted on to determine Tradition.  In the Utrecht declaration, the Old Catholics likewise pounced on the term "ancient", as emphasized by Decem, and used it at least a dozen times while articulating their heretical ecclesiology.

Old Catholic declaration at Utrecht opened with the same St. Vincent of Lerins quote and immediately focused in on "ancient" ... to the point that Decem could have written that himself (with the exception of one or two sentences).

I suggest people read me - and our exchanges - "verbatim" and not listen to someone with a schizophrenic theology wandering in his own mind.