Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Why religious liberty is necessary.  (Read 3971 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline JezusDeKoning

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2940
  • Reputation: +1090/-2220
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why religious liberty is necessary.
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2017, 11:53:29 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Religious liberty really is an error. If you let all the religions have rights, then where is the boundary?
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...


    Offline DZ PLEASE

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2928
    • Reputation: +741/-787
    • Gender: Male
    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: Why religious liberty is necessary.
    « Reply #16 on: August 15, 2017, 02:54:02 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!1
  • If the tippy top religious leader of the world, does not teach religious freedom, everyone will be at each other's throats, and their wouldn't be peace.  It is possible to say, in some way, that men have a right to choose their religion.  If you keep in mind scholastic philosophy and what you can do with mental reservations, and all the philosophy that could be possible, the Church can say this safely.  The Church can teach whatever she wants.  The Church can give a pastoral directive here, for the peace of the world, easily within the powers of the keys of St. Peter.
    EDIT/Add: anonymous is football bat fαɢɢօtry. Man up
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Why religious liberty is necessary.
    « Reply #17 on: August 16, 2017, 05:16:51 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Absolutely true. "Religious Liberty" means that all religions must be tolerated. Which means that there is not one, true religion that it set above all others, such as Catholicism. I can understand how otherwise good Catholics can get caught up in believing that religious liberty will help the Church to maintain her rights, but her rights, in a religious liberty setting, cannot be properly maintained.

    For example, Satanists believe that they have just as much right to practice and promote their evil "religion" as any other religion. And of course they cannot really be suppressed, except through public outcry, because they appeal to the false "Religious Liberty" for their right to exist.

    There was a time in this country when Religious Liberty didn't seem like such as bad idea, especially since at least most Americans were some brand of Christian.  But those days are over. Now the great flaw of Religious Liberty is painfully obvious.
    Catholicism flourishes in liberty of religions.

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Why religious liberty is necessary.
    « Reply #18 on: August 16, 2017, 05:18:01 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It is within the power of the keys of peter, to teach religious liberty in the way it is taught by the Council.

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Why religious liberty is necessary.
    « Reply #19 on: August 16, 2017, 05:19:17 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Religious liberty really is an error. If you let all the religions have rights, then where is the boundary?
    The boundary is still where it is before.  There is no contradiction, as much as angry children are prone to see otherwise.


    Offline DZ PLEASE

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2928
    • Reputation: +741/-787
    • Gender: Male
    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: Why religious liberty is necessary.
    « Reply #20 on: August 17, 2017, 02:07:58 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Catholicism flourishes in liberty of religions.
    A flawed premise of Liberalism. 'With the free and open exchange of ideas, the superiority of Catholicism will be irresistible! She is sure to win!"

    1. The reek of "'murca" is all over this.
    2. Does not factor human malice.
    3. Is like putting one's matron on the street to sell her attentions and show her the top earner.

    Seems like there was something else oh yeah it's CONDEMNED.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Why religious liberty is necessary.
    « Reply #21 on: August 17, 2017, 06:24:39 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • That was me above.
    These do not contradict with how the council speaks of religious liberty.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2928
    • Reputation: +741/-787
    • Gender: Male
    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: Why religious liberty is necessary.
    « Reply #22 on: August 17, 2017, 06:38:11 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • These do not contradict with how the council speaks of religious liberty.
    Note the subtle bass-ackwards thinking. The past, i.e. Tradition gauged by the present.

    When it becomes the air we breath, we become blind to it.
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Änσnymσus

    • Guest
    Re: Why religious liberty is necessary.
    « Reply #23 on: August 18, 2017, 08:51:09 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It directly contradicts the traditional teaching of the Church. V2 says that religious liberty is part of Divine Revelation. Conversely, many Popes have condemned it and taught it is erroneous.


    Vatican II docuмent, Dignitatis Humanae (# 12): “The Church therefore, faithful to the truth of the Gospel, follows the way of Christ and the Apostles when it acknowledges the principle of religious liberty as in accord with human dignity and the revelation of God, and when it promotes it…”

    Pope Leo XIII, Libertas (# 21-23), June 20, 1888: “Justice therefore forbids, and reason itself forbids, the State to be godless; or to adopt a line of action which would end in godlessness – namely, to treat the various religions (as they call them) alike, and to bestow upon them promiscuously equal rights and privileges.
    If that is Catholic Religious Liberty, which it of course would be, meaning, "the principle of liberty (of the Catholic Religion (Religious Liberty))..." then it works.

    Offline St Ignatius

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1024
    • Reputation: +794/-158
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Why religious liberty is necessary.
    « Reply #24 on: August 19, 2017, 11:13:57 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It is within the power of the keys of peter, to teach religious liberty in the way it is taught by the Council Pope Gregory XVI and Pope Pius IX.
    "And so from this rotten source of indifferentism flows that absurd and erroneous opinion, or rather insanity, that liberty of conscience must be claimed and defended for anyone." (Pope Gregory XVI)

    "For surely you know, Venerable Brothers, not a few are found who, applying the impious and absurd principles of naturalism, as they call it, to civil society, dare to teach that the "best plan for public society and civil progress absolutely requires that human society be established and governed with no regard to religion, as if it did not exist, or at least, without making distinction between the true and the false religions." (Pope Pius IX)

    "And also, contrary to the teaching of Sacred Scripture, of the Church, and of the most holy Fathers, they do not hesitate to assert that the best condition of society is the one in which there is no acknowledgment by the government of the duty of restraining, by established penalties, offenders of the Catholic religion, except insofar as the public peace demands." (Pope Pius IX)

    "And, from this wholly false idea of social organization they do not fear to foster that erroneous opinion, especially fatal to the Catholic Church and to the salvation of souls, called by Our predecessor of recent memory, Gregory XVI, insanity; namely that "liberty of conscience and of worship is the proper right of every man, and should be proclaimed and asserted by law in every correctly established society; that the right of all manner of liberty rests in the citizens, not to be restrained either by ecclesiastical or civil authority; and that by this right they can manifest openly and publicly and declare their own concepts, whatever they may be, by voice, by print, or in any other way." (Pope Pius IX)

    Offline DZ PLEASE

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2928
    • Reputation: +741/-787
    • Gender: Male
    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: Why religious liberty is necessary.
    « Reply #25 on: August 19, 2017, 11:45:44 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • When the proposition that a pope can contradict propositions condemned by a pope, such as B16 CONTRA, PIUS IX's syllabus of errors, is accepted, you have then given free reign to the violation of the principle of non-contradiction and are, therefore, too dumb to live.
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline Geremia

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4119
    • Reputation: +1258/-259
    • Gender: Male
      • St. Isidore e-book library
    Re: Why religious liberty is necessary.
    « Reply #26 on: September 14, 2017, 10:12:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Absolutely true. "Religious Liberty" means that all religions must be tolerated.
    And only evils are tolerated; therefore, all religions are evil…
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41859
    • Reputation: +23917/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Why religious liberty is necessary.
    « Reply #27 on: September 15, 2017, 11:27:26 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • If the tippy top religious leader of the world, does not teach religious freedom, everyone will be at each other's throats, and their wouldn't be peace.  It is possible to say, in some way, that men have a right to choose their religion.  If you keep in mind scholastic philosophy and what you can do with mental reservations, and all the philosophy that could be possible, the Church can say this safely.  The Church can teach whatever she wants.  The Church can give a pastoral directive here, for the peace of the world, easily within the powers of the keys of St. Peter.

    There's such a thing as religious tolerance ... which would be practiced for the prudential considerations you cite.  But there's no right to such a liberty in principle.

    Offline DZ PLEASE

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2928
    • Reputation: +741/-787
    • Gender: Male
    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: Why religious liberty is necessary.
    « Reply #28 on: September 15, 2017, 11:30:08 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • There's such a thing as religious tolerance ... which would be practiced for the prudential considerations you cite.  But there's no right to such a liberty in principle.
    You tolerate a knife when pulling it out would make someone die. The knife doesn't "belong", it isn't "proper" to the body. It has no "right" to be there.
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline DZ PLEASE

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2928
    • Reputation: +741/-787
    • Gender: Male
    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: Why religious liberty is necessary.
    « Reply #29 on: September 15, 2017, 11:47:02 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Don't know about the "too dumb to live" part. Certainly "too dumb" to govern a church, or have any control over anything requiring rational thought.
    And yet they govern, and, say, "he who hears us hears Him" - liars, sons of the father of lies.

    Sons of perdition.
    It's just an expression, would that it were not; however, I hear you.
    "Lord, have mercy".