Quote from: Iuvenalis

Hitler was an occultist...

Hitler was not an Occultist. He was a Christian/Catholic. Maybe he was a heretic, but he was not an occultist. Hitler banned occultism in Germany in 1937 and in 1941.

"Writers like Francis King...Gerald Shuster...and Trevor Ravenscroft  have attempted to tie Hitler to the occult ...In fact, the records of Hitler’s actions and words would suggest that, later in his life, he had held contempt for occultism and did not believe in it. Hitler also seemed to have looked down on the nαzιs who did believe in these bizarre beliefs and even mocked their interests. Hitler’s contempt for occultism was demonstrated in July 1937 when he banned the occult action of Freemasonic lodges, Theosophical circles, and related groups throughout the Reich by official decree. Hitler also held contempt for astrology and horoscopes, according Martin Brauen, informants who had known Hitler quite closely reported that Hitler had viewed astrology as absurd. Evidence of this was demonstrated when Hitler banned the practice of fortune-telling and star-reading in Germany prior to the outbreak of the war. In addition, on September 6th, 1938, Hitler made a speech at a Kulturtagung stating that:

"National Socialism is a cool and highly reasoned approach to reality based on the greatest scientific knowledge and its spiritual expression… . Above all, National Socialism is a Volk Movement in essence and under no circuмstances a cult movement! … For this reason, the infiltration of the movement by mystically inclined researchers into the otherworldly cannot be tolerated. They are not National Socialists, but something else – certainly something with which we have nothing to do. … Cult-like activities are not our responsibility, but that of the churches." (Adolf Hitler, Kulturtagung Speech, September 6th, 1938)"



Hitler considered himself a Christian:

"When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exploited." (Adolf Hitler, Speech in Munich, April 12, 1922)

"The National Government regards the two Christian confessions as factors essential to the soul of the German people. It will respect the contracts they have made with the various regions. It declares its determination to leave their rights intact. In the schools, the government will protect the rightful influence of the Christian bodies. We hold the spiritual forces of Christianity to be indispensable elements in the moral uplift of most of the German people. We hope to develop friendly relations with the Holy See." (Adolf Hitler, Reichstag Address, March 23, 1933)

"As we see in Christianity the unshakable foundation of moral life, so it is our duty to continue to cultivate friendly relations with the Holy See and to develop them." (Adolf Hitler, Reichstag Address, March 23, 1933)

"The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests.  It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality. Today Christians stand at the head of our country. ... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity . . .We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press-in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during recent years." (Adolf Hitler, Radio Address, July 22, 1933)

Maybe he was a heretic, but he was no pagan or occultist. He thought he was a good Catholic.

Quote from: Iuvenalis

...and whatever you think of the number of people he killed, he definitely killed (or ordered it).

What people did he kill? And for what reason?

The Catholic Church has killed and ordered people to be killed (Saracens, Marguerite Porete, Jacques de Molay, John Huss, Joan of Arc, Savonarola, Thomas Cranmer, Giordano Bruno) Was this justified? Were the mass killings of Mary the Catholic in England justified? Was the Inquisition justified?

If this is all justified then you have to admit killing people can be justified. So what people did Hitler kill or order to be killed? And for what reason? Killing dangerous people, criminals, spies, traitors, and degenerates is justified.

This is the dumbest post I ever read, Hitler Rejected the Catholic Church when he was 20.

He got most of his anti-Jєωιѕн rantings from Luther.

Anyone who states that Hitler was Catholic, is not Catholic and is trying to defame the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church was an enemy of the nαzι Party and Excommunicated every member of the party in 1932.

Hitler was a politician, when he went to Christian centers he made up lies about being a Christian, and sounded pro-Christian, when he got in power he published a treatise from one of his members called "The 20th Century Lie" which was a direct attack on the Jєωs and CATHOLICS. Catholics were persecuted by the nαzι's but you don't hear about it because you hear about the Jєωs.

I couldn't care less about how many Satanic Jєωs were killed by the Satanic nαzι's. I am more concerned with how many Catholics were persecuted by both the nαzι's and the Communists.

But I will tell you this, the Code of Justinian which was Catholic Declared a protection of the Jєωs from Forced Conversion and from Death for being Jєωιѕн.

Quote from: alaric

But what "hindsight" do you really have? What version of history are we continuously exposed to? The ADL approved Jєωιѕн one? As we all know the victors write the history books.

I'm thinking of Bl. Card. von Galen, Bl. Franz Jagerstatter, St Maximilian Kolbe, Engelbert Dollfuss, Mit Brennender Sorge.

I won't dispute (not at this time) on what the Church or clergy has written about NS or the German Reich.

But to believe that our culture is somehow superior to NS Germany, I call BS.

Maybe I'm wrong but I've been around for a little while and when I look around , don't like what I see. If you think that what some in my family fought and died for against Hitler and the Reich has become, you're definitely wrong.

Quote

As I said in a previous comment Hitler lost the faith. We can't overlook how he and Eva Braun ended their lives or fact it was not a valid wedding.Tragic. Both of them had grains of the Catholic faith.

There was occultism in some circles but this is easily refuted. Even Julius Evola supported "Tradition" as opposed to Tradition but actually towards end of his life called for restoration of Traditional Latin Mass. He had some strange ideas but I suppose when one hasn't Catholicism, they become misguided.

Few Catholics should object to a revolt against the modern world.

Based on authentic docuмents and writings, people like Heinrich Himmler, Alfred Rosenberg, Rudolf Hess, Martin Bormann, Richard Walther Darre etc. were the worst of the bunch. They promoted paganism, occultism, atheism, anti-Christianity, and outrageous racial theories. When it comes to Hitler, he was a misguided Catholic (or a heretic). His worst crime is exaggerated nationalism and wanting Protestants and Catholics to "look passed their differences" and be "German brothers".

It's goes back to original point of turning away from God and losing the faith. I wouldn't have an objection to "Blood and Soil" It's common sense and natural.Blood and soil make up the people of a Nation.

It's goes back to original point of turning away from God and losing the faith. I wouldn't have an objection to "Blood and Soil" It's common sense and natural.Blood and soil make up the people of a Nation.

This is just not Catholic teaching.

Quote from: John Grace

A eugenics mindset is widespread in society today.

Indeed. And opposition to valid, fruitful marriages between people who will produce mixed race children would seem to be part of that mindset.

Old ground here so thus ends my contribution. The points have been made really.

Quote from: clare

Quote from: John Grace

A eugenics mindset is widespread in society today.

Indeed. And opposition to valid, fruitful marriages between people who will produce mixed race children would seem to be part of that mindset.

Such opposition can be acceptable to the Church, depending on what precisely you mean by "oppostion".

Perhaps you would define for us what it is your own definition of what your opinion of 'acceptable opposition' which the Church might hold; where would She object to a fruitful marriage because of there being mixed races? Surely, a marriage based solely on race would not be fruitful, so this would be excluded.

St. Ladislaus, the king of Hungary, banned marriages with Jєωs in the 11th century. There also was a time when convents were segregated. There were cases of people not being able to enter religious orders due to racial segregation. Possibly the most famous case is of Ursula de Jesus, a former black slave who was forbidden to enter a religious order in 17th century Peru. Instead she was permitted stay within the convent as a servant.

But he did not pass a law banning the marriage between an Hungarian and a Khazar, and separating Jєωιѕн converts from religious life was a sign he did not trust those converts (and I am sure he had his reasons), but this is still not racial segregation. So his laws were against a religion, not a race.

I bet he did not ban the marriage between a Hungarian and Khazar if they were both Catholic.